OECD's Report on UK's Education Levels of Attainment

I enjoyed these two letters this morning….

SIR – Ten years ago I became a teacher of business studies and economics at a state school in Oxford. I was shocked by the poor level of literacy and numeracy that I came across, including that among sixth-form students.
Over those 10 years, I discovered the huge effort the school put into these disciplines, through book clubs for literacy, for example, and a cross-curricular focus on both. But the problem was that young people do not practice either discipline in their day-to-day lives. I encountered sixth-formers who had not read a book since they were 12, other than at school, and others who firmly believed they did not need numeracy skills as “that is what calculators are for”. Any judgment on our education system should therefore be tempered by these realities of modern young lives.
Chris Whymark
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

SIR – We have created a society in which being fat, lazy, selfish or ignorant, in any combination, is acceptable if not downright admirable, or at the very least somebody else’s fault. Benefits are a right; knowledge is suspect; fame is better than graft; money is art; art is money; and getting drunk is high culture.
I’d say that our education system is entirely fit for purpose.
Victor Launert
Matlock Bath, Derbyshire

Or because the culture of “the state will support you” is now so engrained that it will take a generation to change attitudes.
The other aspect of the old system which worked was streaming. No one was afraid to talk about backward children who ended up in the C or D stream with dedicated teachers.

The basics have been forgotten,they try to run before they can walk.
I have 2 teenagers one is academically very intelligent and sociable the other is the opposite very quiet not at all academic.The schools seem very good at looking after the more gifted ones [maybe for their own benefit as well] but the less gifted although helped seem to be not as well catered for.
I guess in the “old days” even when i left school there were more jobs than people leaving school so qualifications didn’t seem as important because you would find a job and learn the basics of what you needed from that.
These days jobs are scarce and competition from outside the country is becoming normal.

They are now talking about sending children to school at a later age — not sure why.
What needs to happen is that the parents have a job that pays the bills and gives a good way of life allowing one of the parents to stay at home and teach the children to a certain degree themselves as an addition to what the schools teach,once again the basics,Math,Reading Writing etc.
This will help the parents re educate themselves,bond with the children and reinstate the family structure.
Now we have half illiterate parents having to work full time to pay the bills,pay for child care or the children end up at school as a substitute parent/child minder.

Basically the children in poorer countries see education as a positive to help them as they can only go forward,children over here couldn’t care less because they have little hope of work and lose all faith.

Although there are varying opinions the introduction of this additional layer of inspection and control within the remit of the HMCI seems to have gathered with it increasing bureaucratic burdens on the Head and staff. It is somewhat of a generalisation but there is little evidence that under the previous regime of occasional inspections under the old HMI that children received a poorer education. Schools were judged on their results per se, in an era before results became maniupulated. Inspections took place every 3 to 6 yrarsa and lasted a week and were very comprehensive. I recall that schools had about a month’s notice of an impending inspection.

My slightly flippant response to Linc’s question could have been expanded into a much longer dissertation on the need to overhaul the whole Department and concentrate on the individual pupil’s education rather than on the vast fabric of bureaucracy which governs every detail of a teacher’s working life. Teachers need to get back to teaching and away from endless form filling to satisfy Departmental need.

Just for starters – get rid of Ofsted.

An interesting take.

Can you elaborate?

Moggy

I fear the damage is done, and any action now will be simply closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. 🙁

Education was terrible 15 years ago, and is a whole lot worse these days. Most of the newly qualified teachers aren’t fit to teach anyone, and will simply pass on ingrained poor grammar and numeracy.

It’s easy to blame governments and teachers, but we all sat aside, watched it happening, and did nothing.

I really fear for the future of the UK.

Re 1

The events that you so compellingly and accurately describe have been in place – as I have personally experienced – for almost forty years.

It began with a reversal of a fundamental component of educatiom. Teacher centered education was reversed to become child centered education. This meant that the child was expected to ‘discover’ and could not expect to be taught.

Teaching then moved from being a vocation to one that attempted to became a science, underpinned by the award of tawdry degrees gained as a consequence of absorbing vast tracts of pyscho babble written by pyscho babblers such as Maslow.

How we sowed the educational wind and reaped the whirlwind !

Instructive isn’t it that in this and other similar threads the older ways seem to be recommended. Is it just our age or were some aspects of life better? I believe so.

Respect, not only just in kids, but in life in general for others.and others property.

Jim.
Lincoln .7

Absolutely right. Paul F’s last paragraph endorses your view – and mine.

It isn’t just about the use or availability of corporal punishment, when I was at school it was available and used at times, but the real discipline, when a teacher said no or that’s enough, that of itself was usually sufficient to keep control of a class, because pupils had respect for teachers, parents were not constantly deriding teachers (as happened on here) because something doesn’t fit with the parent’s life style, in fact if a pupil came home with reports of misbehaviour, the pupil would probably get a much harder time from parents than from the teachers.

Suggestions Chas?.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

Just for starters – get rid of Ofsted.

Bad luck, Tony…..:rolleyes::eagerness:

We used to get caned on our hands. So no getting put across anyone’s knee..

I feel left out…. :stupid:

..

Suggestions Chas?.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

The trouble was that even then as kids, we all knew there were certain teachers who got their jollies from having small boys bent over in front of them to cane.

Moggy

We did indeed, but my recollection of it/them was that we thought it/them a laugh. I never remember being “hung up” about it as we would be today. It was just one of those things that happened in school. In fact recollection of it now, still amuses me. Actually it was “The History Boys”.

Linc – with reservations, yes. Something has to be done.

The trouble was that even then as kids, we all knew there were certain teachers who got their jollies from having small boys bent over in front of them to cane.

Moggy

Thanks, Moggy – understood.

Linc – I endured the slipper and the cane and due to my somewhat rebellious nature probably more than most. I honestly don’t think it did me any harm other than as a degree of deterrence and rather sore hands and bum. B ut the general point about the relationship between teacher and taught has become very lopsided, to the detriment of all.

So do you think that punishment should be given back to teachers to dish out to unruly kids?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I would bring back discipline to schools, be it the cane or other, that way those that choose to be disruptive will learn the error of their ways, I felt things went downhill when that was withdrawn and children soon cottoned on they could do what they like. Animals scold their children, why are we so different? it is a part of learning what is right and wrong.

I would also bin the use of calculators etc in lessons, you do not learn basic arithmatic pressing keys. Similar all this crap about it is ok to spel it as it sownds, all that does is promoted bad English and does nothing to help the child in later life, they do them a diservice by not giving them the basics.

As for Racism in schools, to be honest i do not think it is a problem, when I was a lad you would never see a coloured person or a Eastern European, but those things change, and young children will not give a squat if young Tommy he is playing with is black white pink or green, he is just young Tommy, they learn their bigotry from their parents.

Remember the early days when the Indians etc came to the UK, most of the elders resisted and probably still do not speak English, the first and second generations have started to integrate into the UK culture, dress sense etc has relaxed, but pays homage to their heritage, they have learnt the language etc and one would invisage a couple of generations down the line that will continue even further as the older generations die out.

The problem comes when you have schools that are trying to inflict their culture on their children, I have nothing personally against it, as long as it does not go against the Laws of the land, equality for women etc.
A lot of people such as Emmiline Pankhurst suffered in our history to get that right for women, we should embrace it and not allow those coming from other countries to try to subvert that right. They should be taught that and have that as a requirement for the right to live here.

How I agree with your last three paragraphs!!