Ok All Define rare

People ? :diablo:

Dave

6.5 Billion People on Planet Earth…
15 Airworthy Hawker Sea Furies

= approx. 433 million people in the world per Sea Fury

Or, six times the total population of the UK per Sea Fury
Or, 62 times the total population of London per Sea Fury

So, what’s rare???

How about the P-61, or some of the Japanese twin engine planes, PBM Mariner, Bell Airacuda, just to name a few.

The wonderful thing about these two is they are ALWAYs equally rare or common. You will NEVER have more Mustangs than P-51s. Go on count them. It’s really spooky, eh?
:diablo:

Umm, yeah, some of the mustangs are Australian-built CAC 22 s

Jay

That said, and despite protestations to the contrary, I believe most warbird purchases and project restorations are seen initially as long term investments. There have been one or two notable exceptions.

I agree quite well with that! One exeption to that “rule” is a gentleman from Anaheim by the name of Elmer Ward. He wanted to join the Air Force during WWII as a pilot, but an accident left him without four fingers on his right hand. He still wanted to fly a 51, so when he got the opportunity to buy one around 1975, he did so. He rebuilt it, and flew it quite heavily until the late 1990s. Same with another Chino resident, the late Jack Kistler. He was a WWII instructor who also wanted to fly the P-51. When the Nicaraguan ones came back to the US, he saw his chance to buy one. Being a TWA captain on 707s gave him the funds to do so. Still he b**ched and moaned about the $15.000 he had to pay in 1965 or 66. Same I guess goes for the CAF. Those guys just wanted to fly a fighter, and then things kinda snowballed. Today the people who can afford these things are mostly rich businessmen or investors! I have no doubt that they are interested in airplanes, but they also know value or a good investment when they see it. That’s very likely how they became rich in the first place!

T J

Elmer and Man O’ War Chino 8-90

It is too easy to link rarity and desirability in my view.

The market is driven by desirability, the ‘sex on a stick, does my bum look good in this’, factor. Rarity may have a part to play in this but there are plenty of rare aircraft/projects out there that don’t get a second glance, whilst some of the most desirable aircraft, by judgement, are quite common.

A remember ‘Connie’ Edwards once saying to a targeted group of warbird pilots, “P-51’s are like a…holes – everybody has got one”. Connie at the time had six – but still a very desirable aircraft.

The market fluctuates with the pound/dollar ratio and clearly now is the best time ever for a non US based warbird aspirant to buy a Mustang from America.

That said, and despite protestations to the contrary, I believe most warbird purchases and project restorations are seen initially as long term investments. There have been one or two notable exceptions.

Mark

Aren’t there two values attached to an aircraft?

If someone finds an airframe that is considered fit for rebuild (almost anything today), then a purchase price has to be agreed on. The price reflects the condition of the project and the rarity/desirability.

The cost for the rebuild depends somewhat on the condition of the project and what is/isn’t included in the purchase but more on the extent of the rebuild – from “basic” to “total”.

If the purchase price and cost for rebuild is added, the REAL value of the aircraft is obvious, well, at least to the person who has depleted his/her bank account.

When the aircraft is put on the market, it seems like the REAL value has little to do with the IMAGINARY value it attracts by potential buyers. It depends on who flew it in service, how many kills, desirability and so on.

If two projects are in the same condition and are totally rebuilt to the same standards, then a Sea Fury would be financial suicide but a Fw190D could bring some profit.

Lucky me that I’m not wealthy …… 😎 …… since I would probably commit financial suicide …… :rolleyes: …… and in order not to commit financial suicide, the type has to be rare/desirable!

Christer

Does the extant/flying ratio enter into the equation? Is the CR.42 less rare than the Macchi C.202/205 because one of the four in existence is destined to fly?

Ratios are irrelevant.

Let’s say only two aircraft of a type were built. That would make that type extremely rare. However, if one were lost, then 50% of the total production is now in existance. That is a very high percentage. However, it also makes the a/c unique. It doesn’t get rarer than unique!

The wonderful thing about these two is they are ALWAYs equally rare or common. You will NEVER have more Mustangs than P-51s. Go on count them. It’s really spooky, eh?
:diablo:

Janie
:p :p 😀 😮 😮 :diablo: 😀 😀

…now I wouldn’t say Mustangs or P-51 or rare…

The wonderful thing about these two is they are ALWAYs equally rare or common. You will NEVER have more Mustangs than P-51s. Go on count them. It’s really spooky, eh?
:diablo:

Hi All,

Now something like Mels Rearwin I would call rare becasue there are only a few survivers, but I won’t call a Aeronco C-3 rare becasue their are close to 50 left.

Cheers
RER

Actually Rob, they made 124 Rearwin Cloudsters and according to Eric Rearwin’s site about 30 or so survive. That is actually a pretty good percentage! Of those only about five or six fly (plus one in a couple of weeks). So, it is not quite as rare as some and it is only marginally rarer than the C-3.

As for Clodusters in Europe, well mine is rare.

Melv

Hi All,

Very interesting discussion guys, now I wouldn’t say Mustangs or P-51 or rare I inclued all models amd Mks as partof the surviver list.

Now something like Mels Rearwin I would call rare becasue there are only a few survivers, but I won’t call a Aeronco C-3 rare becasue their are close to 50 left.

Like wise I would call A-20s rare while the B-25/A-26 are not even close to being rare.

Yes I can agree that some types do not fly but theya re either preserved in Musuems or held in private collections.

Cheers
RER

Its intresting really because ok Spitfires and P-51s are quiet common but of these two types there are rare marks, For example there is only one flying Spitfire of these marks Mk1( or will be) ,Mk11,MkXI, and of the other variants there are not too many MK18 or 19s either and any mark of seafire is ultra rare , Its the same in P-51s a A or a B/C variant to me would be very rare a D version far less rare.
How rare something is does not really relate to its price mainly because i guess things like Spitfires and Mustangs will always seem more exotic due to there history.
To me all warbird and vintage jets are rare compared to the amount of them that were built, But something a Firefly, P-38,P-39,P-63 etc would be rarer, Its all relative really, For example if 10 were built and 8 exist now is that rare?.

Quote “Spifires are rare in Penicuick”

…… But Harriers are not rare near Haddington…….

Ian.

Does the extant/flying ratio enter into the equation? Is the CR.42 less rare than the Macchi C.202/205 because one of the four in existence is destined to fly?

Veltro

Spitfires are very rare in Penicuik.

One = unique
Two = rare
Three = relatively-rare

Value and rarity are not directly proportional.

The Mustang is not rare.
Exquisitely-built Mustangs are rare (but not as rare as they used to be!)

Mr. Boyle – any chance of a picture of your four-wheeled Bearcat?

Cr. 42, BP Defiant, Sturmovik, Rearwin (AVro) Cloudsters:D 109Es

Stewart

The G.50 is unique (sole survivor, in storage in Belgrade).
The Macchi C.202/5 family is very rare – five survivors of about 1500 built.

Veltro

No typeo $4.5 Million far a Mustnag D,

it was some US War Bird site, I cant find it at the moment I did save it but as my hard drive has blown up I cant retreve it or anything else that was on it, all gone forever, including my web site I was putting together 100+ pages completed, 100,000’s of words all typed in by hand in HTML…

the word b 😡 ll 😡 cks.. said shouted along with a string of other four letter words.