Old instrument panel – identification required

Pilots Notes

Just to finish off I have recieved the Pilots notes today which are enclosed for your own curiosity. Thanks again everyone a job well done!

Thanks….

Thanks for this everybody, Great help, I’ll now try to source the missing instruments from aerojumbles. As previously stated the RPM hole doesn’t fit a mechanical RPM guage but fits the Mk IVB however having said this its not a perfect fit. On the subject of perfect fits were a lot of the instruments of this era fitted on the outside of the panel as opposed to the inside, examples being the Boost guage and rate of climb as the indentations on the panel suggest so??
At the time of placing this article on the forum I also sent the photo to the curator at the RAF Museum, he has wrote back this morning stating that its a Proctor III. Once again well done everyone your help was greatly appreciated.
I have another panel complete with instruments up for your scrutiny, this time an RAAF mosquito circ 1942 , I hope to submit the photo of this on the forum real soon and look forward to your replies and observations, thanks again to all!!!!!!!!!!
Fly.Buy 🙂

There would have been a panel to the left of this one, containing the magneto switch and starter button, and another to the right with just about everything else, i.e. temp, pressure, electrical switches, maybe a clock, etc.

Did it not have temperature and pressure gauges?

Interesting that the panel has been modded to take the later smaller diameter rate-of-climb indicator too. Does that tell us anything?

Yes Mark G, I was concerned about this, too. It definitely suggests a later mod. And now I look at it more closely, I’m wondering whether the R.P.M. hole is large enough for a Mk. IXB mechanical indicator or whether it has been modded for an electrical one of the Mk. IV type. I’ve seen airworthy Spitfires modded like this. If you’d like to measure the diameter, Fly.Buy, I’ll be able to confirm this for you.

That hinge arrangement is bothering me a bit though.

Me too! I’d expect two more anti-vibration mounts on the lower edge of the panel, rather than just piano hinge. If you look at the photos of the Mk. V panel that WebPilot directed us to, you can see them very clearly.

Boost Gauge Mk. IIIM* 6A/1581 (Luminous) or 6A/1582 (Fluorescent)

The Mk. IIIM/IIIM* boost gauges (-7 – + 24) seem to have become a bit of a universal type, perhaps because of post war availability. The A.P. for the Mk. IV, published in 1944, shows a much lower reading gauge of the Mk. IIIH/IIIH* type (-7 – +8).

I think the A.S.I. might be a Mk. IXA (20 – 260 m.p.h.) or Mk. IXC (60 – 260 m.p.h.) ((or Knot equivalent)), depending on what the stalling speed of a Proctor was. The cockpit photo in my A.P. has too much reflection on the glass to see the markings clearly.

A Mark I R of C Indicator is 6A/723 but the Mk. IB* version is much more common and it’s hard to distinguish between them when fitted in a panel. 6A/942 luminous or 6A/1301 fluorescent. I think either version would be right.

The altimeter will almost certainly be a Mk. XIV type, unless replaced by a post war one.

Hmmm…Lets have a go then with section Refs where known.

Do take into account that the instruments fitted to the aircraft I’ve got the photo of may not be the instruments it originally had.

Starting with the top two gauges which as 682al has already pointed out are Fuel gauges Type 578FG Ref 6A/1430

The next run of four from the left are:-
ASI Mk. IX can’t make out the sub type.
Artificial Horizon Mk. IB
Indicator Climb & Decent Mk. IB 6A/723 (?)
Indicator RPM Type unknown

The bottom run of four are as follows

Altimeter (not sure of the Mk for this one)
Directional Indicator Mk. IA, 6A/1209
Turn & Slip Mk. IA
Boost Gauge Mk. IIIM* 6A/1581 (Luminous) or 6A/1582 (Fluorescent)

Anybody want to and anything, correct or comment please feel free.

Anne

I think I agree with you there Alan, that sounds just about right to me. Interesting that the panel has been modded to take the later smaller diameter rate-of-climb indicator too. Does that tell us anything?

That hinge arrangement is bothering me a bit though. Not sure I’ve seen that on military aircraft before, and how do the lower shock mounts attach? I can see the two sets of holes at the top of the panel for the upper brackets (which presumably would contain Lord mounts or spring mounts or similar), but what about the bottom? Are those three tabs visible below the hinge line the mounting brackets?

I’d suggest the standard six blind flying instruments in their usual juxta-positions, with a Mechanical R.P.M. Indicator (Mk. IXB) to the right, and probably a boost gauge, Mk. IIIH (?) below.

That leaves the two upper holes for identical 40 gallon fuel gauges, type 578 f.g., (left and right tanks) with a switch in between, as already described by Anneorac.

If this is a standard Service Proctor II or III panel, it ought to be possible to get a photocopy from the Pilot’s Notes, maybe from Hendon, to confirm all this. I’m still a bit puzzled by some of the features though…it just doesn’t look 1940-ish to me. Perhaps it’s a panel from a civilianised Proctor?

Hmmm, I love this stuff!

Wow! This is the first time I’ve used the forum and I am amazed at the replies. Solved the same day! A big thankyou to all, 682al you were right the panel was obtained at Shoreham aerojumble, initially the seller thought it may have been a Fairey Fulmar but later changed his mind. Web Pilot many thanks for identifying it and the links this helps immensely. And well done to Anneorac for confirming all this!
I plan on restoring the panel, I have the main 6 Blind instruments ie Alt, ASI, Gyro, Horizon, Rate of climb, Turn and slip etc…any idea’s what the remaining 4 instruments should be???? The 2 on the top and the 2 to the right of the panel.
Thanks again.
Fly.Buy

I would stand by the flap guages. The large hole on the top right would be a tacho. I would guess the bottom right one is a boost guage.

Thankyou all !!!

Wow! This is the first time I’ve used the forum and I am amazed at the replies. Solved the same day! A big thankyou to all, 682al you were right the panel was obtained at Shoreham aerojumble, initially the seller thought it may have been a Fairey Fulmar but later changed his mind. Web Pilot many thanks for identifying it and the links this helps immensely. And well done to Anneorac for confirming all this!
I plan on restoring the panel, I have the main 6 Blind instruments ie Alt, ASI, Gyro, Horizon, Rate of climb, Turn and slip etc…any idea’s what the remaining 4 instruments should be???? The 2 on the top and the 2 to the right of the panel.
Thanks again.
Fly.Buy

I am trying to identify which aircraft this instrument panel came from (please see attached photo). It appears to be configured for British instrumentation but the odd thing is that it has no blind flying panel (seems to be in corporated into the panel). The serial markings on the panel are hard to see but appear to be as follows: ASS-KM-181 or possibly SS-KM-18 and KM-14. Any help or steer in the right direction would be greatley appreciated. Thankyou.

Could ASS indicate Airspeed? Maybe a panel from a prewar or civil aircraft.

I would guess the two smaller holes at the top are for Smiths flap guages – if they were cut outs for boost guages they would be accompanied by cut-outs for oil pressure guage pairs etc. Pos single engined aircraft?

By the way, FLY.BUY – welcome to the forum.

Thanks Anneorac!

I’ll clearly have to do some research into Proctor panels!

It was a Mk.II which had been converted to a Mk.III…I’m not sure if that helps!

Anne

Any idea which mark of Proctor it is in your photos, Anneorac?

I have the A.P. for the Proctor IV and that version had a standard 6A/760 Blind Flying Panel. WebPilot directed us to the only cockpit photos of a Proctor V that I’ve seen and the panel does look very similar but differs in a number of ways, so perhaps it has been heavily modded over the years.

It would be great to be able to pin this down for future reference.

Or maybe it’s time I changed my forum name to Alanorac?

🙂

I’ve just had a look at some old photos I’ve got and confirm that it’s from a Proctor. Sadly I’ve not got any way to post the photos but I can tell you that the small slot in between the two top instruments the on/off switch for the fuel gauges.

Anne

Aaargh…I sould check what I’ve written before posting. I appear to be missing a few words from the above!

I’ve just had a look at some old photos I’ve got and confirm that it’s from a Proctor. Sadly I’ve not got any way to post the photos but I can tell you that the small slot in between the two top instruments the on/off switch for the fuel gauges.

Anne

It’s certainly not DH Rapide, as this shot of G-AGTM’s cockpit shows.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=400923&WxsIERv=RGUgSGF2aWxsYW5kIERILTg5Li4uIERyYWdvbiBSYXBpZGUgLi4u

How about this – very similar – Percival Proctor.

http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/pages/smitpro5.html

I remember one of these panel’s being offered at several aerojumbles a few years ago and we struggled to identify it then. And that one had it’s full complement of instruments, too.

It looks (early) post war to me. Either British made or maybe foreign but using British type instruments. It’s one component of the full panel and I would expect there to be a subsidiary panel at either side of this one. It looks as though it hinges forward from the lower edge to allow access to the rear of the panel.

I’m guessing it’s from a single-seat cockpit or a very snug side-by-side. Maybe from a helicopter?

I’ve discounted all the types I can bring readily to mind, so it remains a mystery to me, for the time being. Sorry!

Me and my pal exhibited a Rapide/Dominie panel at Cockpitfest last year. Nothing like this one at all!

Hi FLY.BUY welcome to the forum.

From where did you get the photo?