Old photo – help appreciated

Hi Eddie,
Perfectly possible! Good point. They used anything they could get their hands on. But there’s nothing in the PHOTO to put it later than the 1920s. And an engineless ‘Tinside and a rotary with two seats and a rearward firing gun would a) be quite desperate stuff and b) wouldn’t last long. However, probabilities are one thing, we don’t have facts (yet). It is possible (but unlikely) that the photo may have been taken in Britain, for instance.

If you are interested, 628AL, I can supply an e-mail of a chap at Foundation Infante de Orleans who might be able to help and would probably be interested in the photo. The Spanish Air Force Museum likewise. Roger S has better contacts than I. Where is he?
Cheers!

James – I’m sure I read that the Republicans had some Sopwith Snipes at the start of the civil war. It seems completely plausible to me that they would have had a Panther.

Good point Roger.

My Panell refs say that Hector Bolas refused the Air Min’s reduced order for Panthers so the Contract went to the British & Colonial Aeroplane Co who built 150 between 1919 and 1920 – Parnell having built only 6 prototypes. Two were supplied to the USA in 1920 and 12 to Japan in 1920-21. The presumption is the rest to the FAA, who retired theirs in 1926.

Armed with one gun in a flexiable mount and a max spped of 109 mph, the Panther as well as the ‘Tinsyde would be pretty old and of limited use by the Spanish Civil War as was conjectured earlier.

I think we have a 1920s photo here.

So has this raised a further query – was it known that the Spanish had at least one Parnall Panther. Unfortunately my library doesn’t include Putnam’s “Parnall Aircraft” so I can’t check.

The panther was a most unusual design – the rear fuselage hinged sideways to facilitate stowage on board ship.

Roger Smith.

I’d say you’ve all done a pretty comprehensive job on this pic, and I really appreciate your efforts.

A pretty rare type, in unusual circumstances too.

Brilliant, thanks again!

682al

I thought about it.

It should be a Spanish Republican Navy aircraft. They had seven.

Just what I read O.k.

About 65 built by the Armistice, But none had entered service with the RAF,
Two used by RAF Commmunication Wing in 1919 to carry dispatches between London and Paris for Peace Conference.
Some sent to Eire, Japan and Spain, Other’s became civil racing aircraft.

From one of the little book’s, that’s easy to grab, Warplane’s of the world 1918-1939, Michael J.H.Taylor.

Doh, doh, missed al the fun

Good stuff – anyone id the rotary engineed a/c behind?

It must be a Republican aircraft……

source of the above photo is here:

http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/GC192801.HTM

another good source is here:

http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/codes.html

Both do not have any specific reference to the “EA-” codes, however……

Martin

Interesting.

I can’t find any references to Spain ever using the EA-series of registrations, only M- followed later by EC-

Can anyone add anything to this?

Mike,

I found this:-

Aeronáutica Naval

Each aircraft had a code similar to that for civil aircraft, consisting of EA followed by a three letter individual aircraft code (eg. EA-BAB was a Savoia-Marchetti S-62), although this code wasn’t always painted on the aircraft. In addition, each aircraft bore a type letter or letters representing the aircraft type, followed by a number assigned to each aircraft as it entered service (eg. EA-BAB also bore the code S-1), usually in large letters on the fuselage. The type letters were derived from the name of the aircraft type, and were often kept by naval aircraft used by the republicans throughout the civil war (eg. The Martinsyde F4 buzzards).

http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/codes.html#buzzard

Mark

I think it’s Spanish – here’s a sister ship: EA-EAE

note the same letter-style, the same fuselage band and the same position of registration on the fuselage.

so the one in the initial photo supposedly is EA-EAG 😎

Martin

thanks Martin!

…my last reference (for now) 😀 says Portugese AF operated Buzzards too…

checked the Spanish Civil Register; the only possibilities don’t match

M-AAAG was an Airco DeHavilland DH9-C
M-AGAG was an Airco DeHavilland DH9-B
M-CAAG was an Avro 594 Avian IV
M-CGAG was a DeHavilland DH60-G Gipsy Moth (became EC-GAG)

Martin

My British Civil Aircraft Vol.III published by Putnams (Shhhh) has no British civil registered Martinsydes which fit G-**AG or indeed any other ****AG format. Several went to Canada for instance.

The summary has 29 reworked for export to foreign air forces, including 17 aircraft for Finland. A number ended up in the hands of Handley Page after Martinsyde were would up, and then the Aircraft Disposal Co as well. Other ‘Tinsides were sold to the Latvian AF and the Irish Air Corps, though the pre delivery British regs aren’t what we are looking for.

This is Martinsydes of all types, as there were a lot of type name variations with little physical difference!

Ok…I take it back. It is a Buzzard. Just thought the caban struts looked a bit too long.

Anne

Hello sailor.

I believe the French used the Buzzard.

Is that a French naval uniform of the period?

Mark

G-INFO comes up with no Martinsydes with a G-**AG, so it does look like a foreign reg,
as OAW said, but for a guess the style of the lettering is British – applied?

Looks like a marine uniform – probably Naval, not RN or related (RAN RNZN RCN) or USN.

Interesting.

Martinsyde Buzzard

An image from the RAF Museum ‘Milestones of Flight’ site.

Mark

Ah,
But which one?

Good man. I was just going to say it’s not a DH60 (G-AAAG, or a ‘BAe-60’ G-ABAG 😀 surviving at Old Warden) Nor a Comper Swift ACAG nor a Rapide ADAG, nor a Falcon 6 AEAG nor a Lockheed 10 AGAG – I wondered about G-BOAG, but the lack of a delta threw that one out. 😀