Old pix -Beau,Mosquito and Tempest in London

Yes they would be of interest – coloUr photography was expensive back in the 1960s, so not many amateurs used it on planes.Also as long standing museum exhibits – many of us here have seen these individual airframes many times in our lives .

I’ve just managed to locate my photo album with these photos from the 1968 BoB Week – all I’ve got to do is scan them in / clean up a little and hopefully share them on the Forum as soon as I can.

As you say, colour photography in those days did prove expensive and that’s one reason I took shots largely in b&w with a selected few in colour.

Hope you’ll bear with me for short while until I can post pics.

Cheers

Richard

Dare I say it??? What are the logistics/possibilities of converting A19-144 to a Merlin engine version. Is it worth it to see one flying again?
Paul

These photos were indeed taken on Horseguards Parade, London in September 1968 during the Battle of Britain Week.

The Meteor in question is in fact the famous record breaking Meteor F. Mk IV (‘Special’) EE549 (7008M). After its display on Horseguards this aircraft returned to storage at RAF St. Athan and later went on display to the public at RAF Museum, Hendon, from November 1972 until it again went into storage in September 1979, this time at RAF Abingdon, Oxfordshire where it underwent a programme of restoration and repaint (including anti-corrosion treatment).

She was returned in September 1981 to RAF St. Athan and put on display in the station’s museum.

During the commemorations of the 40th anniversary of the first flight of the Meteor the aircraft was put on display at RAF Bentley Priory, returning again to RAF St. Athan.

In 1989 EE549 was moved to the Aerospace Museum at Cosford for display, following the dispersal of the RAF St. Athan collection.

On 19th September 1992 she was transported by road to West Sussex where she joined the ‘Tangmere Military Aviation Museum’ on long term loan from the RAF Museum. This effectively took this aircraft’s history full circle as she was originally issued to RAF ‘High Speed Flight’ at the then RAF Tangmere on 8th August 1946. She is still currently on proud display in the TMA Museum.

It was from Tangmere that EE549 achieved the ‘absolute world airspeed record’ (615.78 mph) on 7th September 1946, which was not bettered until 19th June 1947 when a Lockheed P-80R ‘Shooting Star’ succeeded in claiming the record for America.

I hope this ‘potted history’ is of interest. I was personally on Horseguards Parade during the 1968 BoB Week and took a number of colour photos of the aircraft on display – all I’ve got to do now is try to find the album !!! Would these be of further interest to fellow “threadies” if I should find them and get them scanned on the Forum ??

Cheers

Richard

Yes they would be of interest – coloUr photography was expensive back in the 1960s, so not many amateurs used it on planes.Also as long standing museum exhibits – many of us here have seen these individual airframes many times in our lives .

………………………………. here are a few of an impressive group displayed in somewhere in central London sometime (in the early 1960s???)……..

These photos were indeed taken on Horseguards Parade, London in September 1968 during the Battle of Britain Week.

The Meteor in question is in fact the famous record breaking Meteor F. Mk IV (‘Special’) EE549 (7008M). After its display on Horseguards this aircraft returned to storage at RAF St. Athan and later went on display to the public at RAF Museum, Hendon, from November 1972 until it again went into storage in September 1979, this time at RAF Abingdon, Oxfordshire where it underwent a programme of restoration and repaint (including anti-corrosion treatment).

She was returned in September 1981 to RAF St. Athan and put on display in the station’s museum.

During the commemorations of the 40th anniversary of the first flight of the Meteor the aircraft was put on display at RAF Bentley Priory, returning again to RAF St. Athan.

In 1989 EE549 was moved to the Aerospace Museum at Cosford for display, following the dispersal of the RAF St. Athan collection.

On 19th September 1992 she was transported by road to West Sussex where she joined the ‘Tangmere Military Aviation Museum’ on long term loan from the RAF Museum. This effectively took this aircraft’s history full circle as she was originally issued to RAF ‘High Speed Flight’ at the then RAF Tangmere on 8th August 1946. She is still currently on proud display in the TMA Museum.

It was from Tangmere that EE549 achieved the ‘absolute world airspeed record’ (615.78 mph) on 7th September 1946, which was not bettered until 19th June 1947 when a Lockheed P-80R ‘Shooting Star’ succeeded in claiming the record for America.

I hope this ‘potted history’ is of interest. I was personally on Horseguards Parade during the 1968 BoB Week and took a number of colour photos of the aircraft on display – all I’ve got to do now is try to find the album !!! Would these be of further interest to fellow “threadies” if I should find them and get them scanned on the Forum ??

Cheers

Richard

What a great reply, covers all bases.

I wish. 😉 I may well be wrong on any / all of what transpires, but that’s what I understand at the present. However I’m reasonably certain it’s colour in the UK, Canada, Australia, and Pearl Harbor anywhere. 😀

Regards,

What a great reply, covers all bases. So the engine and prop issues as well as the CAA rule it out of the UK skies…..shame,but I am glad to know the reasons….so the more flexible South African, US or Canadian regimes may allow it into their skies, thats something to hope for ,air to air pix are the next best thing to seeing it fly myself.
The reports that A9-144 is based on the fuselage of A8-324 then have some credence………
I have been posting so much on non British forums that I have forgotten the British spelling of colour until reminded:D

I agree, and I hope this rumour is groundless. If the Beau has to be sold…

The Beau has effectively been sold; the intent is it’s not going to stay with TFC, as Provenance have it ‘for sale’.

There are many rumours, some with a basis in real negotiations, but for a number of reasons it’s likely to go overseas.

…the best home for it would be BBMF, perhaps as a use of lottery funds or from public subscription.

That would be nice. If you trot up with a big enough wad, however (legally) obtained, it’s yours. Then you have to either convince the CAA or the RAF that it can be returned to fly, and how you’ve a cunning plan to get over the so-far intractable engine and prop issues.

I see that it is painted up as A19-144 BUT listed in Warbirds directory as being constructed as RAF JM135 before gaining its Aussie number

I’m always amazed by the assumption (no personal criticism here) that you choose an ID from a recovered aircraft’s history and then everything comes from that aircraft. Like many other rebuilds, there’s a lot of new fabrication, and a wide selection of best parts from about half-a-dozen Beaus. Most was recovered for the project from Australia, and some was Australian used, and some Aussie built.

FYI, the A-19-xxx series were RAAF serials specifically for British built Beaus, while the Aussie ones were A8-xxx. See: http://www.adf-serials.com/

There’s no desputes about the identity of this aircraft, but don’t kid yourself a watertight case could be made it’s all Pommie – the converse also applies.

-it would be nice to see it in RAF colors

Dunno any ‘RAF colors’. 😉 It’s in RAAF colours so far, and RAF colours would be nice but mostly non-original. Colo(u)rs aren’t the problem. Cash, certification and engineering are the issues. With CAA restrictions, I don’t foresee (and I may well be wrong) that UK flight is possible. Sadly I suspect the limited imagination of Australia’s CASA would be similar.

Here are the Lizzie and Meteor -operational history is always a huge plus -its a shame that squadron aircraft tended to be quickly scrapped unless selected for gate guardian duties upon retirement

Indeed. That Lysander’s history is, perhaps the most interesting of the types’ survivors.

Sadly the RAF Museum’s website seems to have no specific aircraft history.

From my book:

RAF Museum, UK

On display in Army co-op colours, R9125 still has the rear cockpit interior as converted for special duties.

Westland-built Lysander Mk.III R9125 is probably the most historic example of the type, and rightly resides in the RAF Museum. It actually served with 161 Squadron in 1944, after its first operational posting with 225 Sqn on 29th September 1940 with whom it undertook anti-invasion patrols, and then was later being converted to a target tug, after which it worked with the Central Gunnery School. This was the aircraft, painted as JR-M, used in the film ‘Now it Can be Told’ about the SOE in 1944. Now displayed as LX-L, most visitors don’t realise its fascinating history, and that it is both the oldest Lysander and the only surviving genuine spy-dropper.

http://mmpbooks.biz/books/8391717844/8391717844p.htm

SMS 88
Whilst i was at Duxford for Helitech earlier this week ,i heard a rumour
that once A19- is finnished and test flown it will depart to a new owner in Canada.Anyone know anything about this,is it true !!!
As i`ve never seen one fly, along with a lot of other people in this part of the world,it will be a great shame.

G-ANPK

I agree, and I hope this rumour is groundless. If the Beau has to be sold the best home for it would be BBMF, perhaps as a use of lottery funds or from public subscription. I see that it is painted up as A19-144 BUT listed in Warbirds directory as being constructed as RAF JM135 before gaining its Aussie number -it would be nice to see it in RAF colors
Here are the Lizzie and Meteor -operational history is always a huge plus -its a shame that squadron aircraft tended to be quickly scrapped unless selected for gate guardian duties upon retirement

SMS 88
Whilst i was at Duxford for Helitech earlier this week ,i heard a rumour
that once A19- is finnished and test flown it will depart to a new owner in Canada.Anyone know anything about this,is it true !!!
As i`ve never seen one fly, along with a lot of other people in this part of the world,it will be a great shame.

G-ANPK

(I also have the Lizzie and Meteor if anybody wants to see them).

Hi SMS88,
I’d certainly be interested in the Lizzie. I believe it’s the RAF Museum’s example, now on show in the Battle of Britain Hall. Not a lot of people realise it’s a genuine agent-pickup 161 Special Duties Squadron example, and also ‘starred’ in the film (available on VHS tape from the IWM) ‘Now it Can be Told’ on the SOE.

I havent ever seen any dicussions or old threads about RD867 -its great to finally know the story -with so few survivors its not surprising that little attention is given to this very significant type.Once or should I say if, the Duxford example reaches the British skies I suspect that all Beaus allover the world will be on the receiving end of a lot more care and attention, and passion too…….So the Hendon example was a half scrapped wreck that was rebuilt with all the HTF parts of RD867 before it went to Canada……….
If only the guys at Duxford realised how unique and entertaining that Beau would be compared to rare American (early marks of P40 and P51) or Russian types it might be able to jump to the front of the restoration queue.On my annual September visit to Duxford this year it has really come along since 2006 ,the highlight of the static airfames is always A19-144 for me:)

I think ‘the guys at Duxford’ (The Fighter Collection) rather do realise the type’s importance, and the fact it hasn’t flown is a symptom of the problems facing sorting (particularly) the engine and prop combination, rather than any lack of effort! Literally years of telephone calls, letters, faxes etc etc have been made / sent to try and overcome the challenges. No-one else anywhere in the world has even really tried, with the exception of HARS near Sydney, NSW – and that’s a longer project to say the least. As to ‘all Beaus all over the world will be on the receiving end of a lot more care and attention’ I dunno – the Moorabbin example is treasure by it’s owners, the NMUSAF example has jut been restored and gone on show, and the others aren’t in institutions who re-arrange their queues at will. Still we can hope.

Regards

Here is the Tempest in closer view (I also have the Lizzie and Meteor if anybody wants to see them).
I havent ever seen any dicussions or old threads about RD867 -its great to finally know the story -with so few survivors its not surprising that little attention is given to this very significant type.Once or should I say if, the Duxford example reaches the British skies I suspect that all Beaus allover the world will be on the receiving end of a lot more care and attention, and passion too…….So the Hendon example was a half scrapped wreck that was rebuilt with all the HTF parts of RD867 before it went to Canada……….
If only the guys at Duxford realised how unique and entertaining that Beau would be compared to rare American (early marks of P40 and P51) or Russian types it might be able to jump to the front of the restoration queue.On my annual September visit to Duxford this year it has really come along since 2006 ,the highlight of the static airfames is always A19-144 for me:)

Is that the black Beaufighter that’s in Canada (after three decades of outside storage)

Well, yes – but…

I understand the Canadian National Aviation Collection traded a complete Bollingbroke to the RAF Museum for a Beau. Giving a complete ‘Bristol’, they clearly expected a complete Bristol… They got a gutted engineless airframe, that had been on display in the UK with engines, and looked complete. Bad contact? Misunderstanding? Don’t know, but I can see what it looks like.

The Can Av then had one of the longest (understandable) hissy fits and left the aircraft outside for, indeed decades. It was protected with bird spikes, but that was it.

On the completion of the climate-controlled storage facility, the aircraft has been moved inside a couple of years ago. From an external inspection, the Beau looks in reasonable condition, considering.

Jan 2007:

I think the Mossie still exists… 🙂 ..I have it somewhere that she’s preserved at RAF Museum Cosford…

I’m sure that is Horse Guards Parade and features the embryo RAF Museum collection. The Tempest and Lizzie are in the respective backgrounds.

John

I think the Mossie still exists… 🙂 ..I have it somewhere that she’s preserved at RAF Museum Cosford…

Is that the black Beaufighter that’s in Canada (after three decades of outside storage)

Cheers

Cees

Sad to say, but yes, thats her…

http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/collections/image_bank/dig_image.cfm?Lang=e&id=33480

But she is inside now (I believe) with the completion of the second building.

JJ

Is that the black Beaufighter that’s in Canada (after three decades of outside storage)

Cheers

Cees