Hello Everyone – my first post on this forum.
Every so often I come across references to a couple of B-17s and a Lancaster that were recovered from one or more lakes in Switzerland in the 1950s by a guy called Martin Schaffner (or Haffner) . One of these was a B-17G from the 550th BS, 385BG which crashed in Lake Constance on 16 Mar 44 and was recovered in 1953, exhibited for some years and then scrapped in the 60s.
I think there was at least one other B-17 and if memory serves me, a 35 Squadron Lancaster (?) whose tail turret is the only piece left (in a museum in Switzerland) after it too was scrapped.
Is there anything in print or on the web about this? Did anything else get pulled out? There are a couple of pictures in a couple of books and I *think* there was an article in FlyPast wihich featured the Lanc’s turret in the museum, but rampant middle-age is clouding the brain-cells.
From the illustrations I have seen the planes must have been some kind of minor tourist attraction (they certainly would be now) so I’m puzzled by the lack of photos/articles. Maybe my search technique needs to be refined. Anyone got any references?
By: jonathan blatt - 17th November 2008 at 19:48
The remains of the Lonesome Polecat are now preserved in our museum in Lisserbroek, Holland. Stieglitz has pics of it. BW Roger
i realize this is an old thread but i have just found it. the choice of the name “lonesome polecat” interested me because my father piloted the original “lonesome polecat” b-17. unfortunatley, the plane was shot down during a mission over brunswik in the spring of 1944, and my father as well as his crew bailed out and spent the next 13 months in stalag luft I.
By: Stieglitz - 8th April 2005 at 20:21
Maybe … I’l see if I can make it there. Thanks again for the tip R.
Greets,
Stieglitz
By: EHVB - 8th April 2005 at 20:16
Well Jochen, next week it is your turn as I understand the BAHA storage/collection will be open for the public. BW Roger
By: Stieglitz - 8th April 2005 at 19:35
I hope you can bring some nice pics from this storage Roger & co. I can’t make it there.
J.V.
By: EHVB - 8th April 2005 at 18:48
Hi Cees,
See you there then, just mailed you the press release.
BW Roger
By: HP57 - 8th April 2005 at 18:42
Roger,
Yes, I will be there at around 11:30 as well.
See you there.
Cees
By: EHVB - 8th April 2005 at 15:44
Still coming to the storage? Our eta will be around 11.30, just in case demand is so high they open the gates early. BW Roger
By: HP57 - 8th April 2005 at 15:42
Bedankt Martin
Cees
By: Swiss Mustangs - 8th April 2005 at 15:28
Cees
I am talking about one lying on the German side, off Friedrichshafen. Got to check my files for details.
Groetjes
Martin
By: Dave Homewood - 8th April 2005 at 15:28
Kansan, no need to apologise, no thunder stealing took place. I just thought you may find the older thread useful or interesting. I’m glad you raised the issue again because it meant Martin posted the photos he promised before.
By: HP57 - 8th April 2005 at 15:16
Martin,
I thought that the (or a) Halifax had been recovered as well?
So there could be more………….
Cees
By: Kansan - 8th April 2005 at 15:14
Oops!
I started a thread on this very topic some time back. See it here
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37452&highlight=SchaffnerI had read about Martin Schaffner in the January 1995 issue of FlyPast, which had a large article with photos – including photos of the very complete Lancaster. He also pulled a Halifax out of a lake and scrapped it too I believe. Such a shame. I wish he’d either kept them intact or left them there for the future.
Dave –
Oops! You did, didn’t you?! My apologies – not trying to steal your thunder. That’ll teach me to make sure I read all 500+ pages of this stuff before posting anything!! 🙂 Maybe I’ll read the FAQ too, one day.
Thanks for the FlyPast reference. I hadn’t realised it was 10 years ago since I thought I’d read about it recently. – Just another sign of premature aging (what do I mean premature?!)
Rob / Kansan
By: Dave Homewood - 8th April 2005 at 12:06
I started a thread on this very topic some time back. See it here
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37452&highlight=Schaffner
I had read about Martin Schaffner in the January 1995 issue of FlyPast, which had a large article with photos – including photos of the very complete Lancaster. He also pulled a Halifax out of a lake and scrapped it too I believe. Such a shame. I wish he’d either kept them intact or left them there for the future.
By: willy.henderick - 8th April 2005 at 08:50
Biography in an article, yours maybe, Martin?
By: DazDaMan - 8th April 2005 at 08:44
Great thread 🙂
By: Swiss Mustangs - 8th April 2005 at 08:28
Salut Chacal
I’ll check my Vampire / Venom crashfiles for this one –
Meilleures salutations
Martin
By: Chacal - 8th April 2005 at 08:24
I think there is also a Vampire or a Venom in the lac de Neuchâtel near Portalban lost during a gun practice. Martin, have you more information on this ? I don’t know if the Swiss Army recover the wreck, but with the crash impact I don’t think there is much things remaining.
Greetings from Yverdon, Switzerland
By: DaveM2 - 8th April 2005 at 06:15
Also an intact He 177, sonar images appeared in Jet & Prop a few years back. Quite a few bombing raids on Friedrichshafen, which lies on the shores of the German side.
Dave
By: Dan Johnson - 8th April 2005 at 05:43
It’s enough to make a grown man cry to see those birds and knowing they weren’t worth saving at the time.
Dan
By: Kansan - 7th April 2005 at 23:08
It’s a BIG Lake…
Lake Constance is quite big and there were many aircraft that fell into it.
Martin
Wikipedia says:
Lake Constance (German Bodensee, also known as Schwäbisches Meer (informally) and sometimes written Lake of Constance) is a lake on the Rhine between Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
The freshwater lake sits at 395 m above sea level and is central Europe’s third largest, after Lake Balaton and Lake Geneva. It covers approximately 564 km² (220 mi²) total area. The greatest depth is 252 m in the middle of the eastern part (Obersee). Its volume is approximately 55 km³.
That’s Big! So a couple of B-17s, a Lancaster, a Halifax, a Mosquito and several others would fit in there quite comfortably. And freshwater so the preservation state would be fairly good. But over 700 feet at the deepest point.
Our glaciers in the mountais also still hold remains of many aircraft, i.e. Bf-109E-3, D-3801 Morane, C-3603, two USAAF C-47 Dakotas, P-51D……..
I could go on…….Martin
Please do, when you get the time. 🙂
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April 7, 2005 at 3:07 pm