Oldest combat aircraft

I would have thought either a mig or a c-47. I just dont know what is being flwon in some of the poorer countrys.

Morane Saulnier

Although it´s not a real fighter jet, The Morane Saulnier 760 it´s still operational with the Argentine Air Force. It entered sevice in 1958, and it continues flying from it homebase at Mendoza city after 47!!!! years of sevice.

Hello All,

I think the US Navy has actually ceased OF-4 ops now, Flypast ran a story that the 20 or so stored at Cherry Point were going to be axed. That just leaves the QF-4s at Tyndall and Holloman, and the Collings Foundation F-4D.

The German a/c from the 20th FS were retired to AMARC at the end of last year, early this year.

Cheers

Tim

The PT-17 Stearman trainers in the Mexican Air Force must come close!

Any FAC (Forward Air Control) T-6’s out there – South America / Africa maybe?

The DC-3 at The Bangkok Museum of science was overhauled at Sywell – we know cos we have the ID plate!

TT

Early NA series trainers/COIN aircraft have to be up there – especially in Latin America….

I’m pretty sure that the Royal Thai Air Force still have a fairly significant number of C-47s in operational service ‘up the jungle’.

I was flying into Bangkok International last year, totally immersed in Ernest K Gann’s ‘Fate is the Hunter’ tales of DC-2s and DC-3s, looked up after touchdown to see a C-47 doing a perfect wheeler landing on the parallel runway. Spooky!

The good news are that according to a decision by General Avlonitis, the CO of the HAF, 49-2622 “Poseidon/Neptune“, who flew with the Kyushu Gypsies during the Korean War as part of the 13th RHAF Flight, and which now still flies with the 355 Mira (Sq.) will keep flying as part of a -still to be founded- HAF Memorial Flight!!!

From J.Baugher’s site:

49-2612/2641 Douglas C-47 Skytrain
For Greece under MDAP as 612/641
2616 hit by USAF F-80 during takeoff at K-13, Korea Dec 22, 1952.
2622 (c/n 20474) was ex 43-16008 that had gone to civil registry as NC15836
and later N15836 that was required by USAF in 1949.
still flying with Greek AF bearing serial 49-2622. Has been under IRAN
at Hellenic Aircraft Industries from Oct 31, 2004. Expected to be returned
to Greek AF Jun 2005 with about 3 more years of operational use

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1949.html

http://hafcphotos.cs.net/photo_viewer_detail.cfm?photoid=168487

PS last week the T-6D 49-2751 that was under restoration at the HAF Museum in Tatoi, was completed and is now displayed at the courtyard of the HAF Istorical Branch building at Palio Faliro… Excellent job as always, well done guys!!!

The last of the Mohicians!er F-4’s

Hello again to all,
This past week,I saw an F-4 fly that the announcers said was the last flying U.S. military Phantom.It was out of Holloman A.F.B.New Mexico.Pilots were Germans undergoing training at Holloman.Atleast thats what they said.wouldnt be the first time those blowhard announcers were wrong!Heres a few photos taken at Reno this past week. Tim

There are original An-2s in Russia too, but none are airworthy AFAIK. North Korea’s An-2s are both Polish and Chinese built, Polish ones being delivered until at least the 1970s.

True, but hardly any of the original Soviet-built An-2s survive

Arthur, I would put money on finding some of them in North Korea today. Whether or they are still servicable is another matter though.

Are there no AC-47 (or equivalent) still working in South America? Even with turbo props (which I recall some got upgrade with) they would still be old and with guns – which the Greek ones don’t have…

Flood

A number still should be airworthy with El Salvador and possibly Honduras, but the last sightings tell the guns are removed and they now fly as trash haulers. I think all are surviving ones there are Basler turboprop versions though. Far less fun.

I wish not to disgree with you on the F-4Fs but my Coz. is a Mec. with the Silver Lobos and he told me that the 4s are in the process of getting Glass Cockpit put into them. As for Tax Reason they are still carried on the USAF inventory so they are USAF on lease back to the GAF.

Hi CM!
There is one MFD (multi-function display, a TV screen/monitor if you wish) fitted to the F-4F KWS cockpit, but that doesn’t make it a glass cockpit. The confusion is probably because the German Phantoms at Holloman not too long ago have changed from not-upgraded F-4F to F-4F KWS.
And while the Phantoms surely look like full-blown USAF birds, they most certainly are not. Even their official ‘USAF serials’ (i believe most are in fiscal year 1975) are only there because the original Foreign Military Sales contract under which they were delivered was negotiated through the Pentagon – they actually carry FMS serials, not USAF tailnumbers. Even though FMS serials fit within the USAF system.
The aircraft were fully paid for by the Luftwaffe, as do they pay for everything to keep the aircraft running. The only reason they are painted in USAF markings is because that way, they don’t have to pay foreign landing fees when flying in the US. Of course this trick only works for USAF-operated aircraft, the Tornados at Holloman have their normal German paintjobs.

I saw a MCAS Cherry Point QF-4 at NAS Brunswick two Weeks ago they still have USN Bu# so they are still on the Navys inventory if they are being operated like the drones on the West Coast they have Civilian N #s.

Nope, drones built under military contracts keep their military serials. They are still on the military inventory (both the Navy and USAF operate QF-4s), so why should they get N-numbers?
The picture i’ve attached shows a USAF QF-4 (a former F-4E), still with it’s military tailnumber 68-0345. It’s the same with the Navy drones – that doesn’t mean they won’t get shot down. It’s the same procedure as with the QF-86es, PQM-102s, DF-100s and QF-106es before.

I read that when the Germans retire there F-4s they would hev operated them close to 50 Years this must set some sort of recourd for Type operated by one Nation.

That would mean the Germans have to continue flying their Phantoms until 2025 (they got their F-4F’s in 1975, the RF-4E’s were a bit earlier but these are now retired), which exceeds the current planning by more than a decade. The Germans are right now slowly in the process of replacing their F-4F’s with Typhoons, with the final F-4F to be retired by 2012-2015. Still almost forty years, which is respectable enough.

EDIT: forgot the pic, the USAF QF-4 (no pilots aboard).

The 375WEG at Tyndall is also a QF-4 operator, operating the drones on behalf of the USAF. However, there are no operational Phantoms anywhere in US military service (the 20FS only flies in US marked aircraft for tax reasons) and the Spooks that do fly are all drones. One thing about the F-4Fs: although they got quite a number of upgrades during the F-4-KWS program, a glass cockpit wasn’t part of that.

Hi Arthur,

I wish not to disgree with you on the F-4Fs but my Coz. is a Mec. with the Silver Lobos and he told me that the 4s are in the process of getting Glass Cockpit put into them. As for Tax Reason they are still carried on the USAF inventory so they are USAF on lease back to the GAF.

I saw a MCAS Cherry Point QF-4 at NAS Brunswick two Weeks ago they still have USN Bu# so they are still on the Navys inventory if they are being operated like the drones on the West Coast they have Civilian N #s.

I read that when the Germans retire there F-4s they would hev operated them close to 50 Years this must set some sort of recourd for Type operated by one Nation.

Cheers Crazymainer

Are there no AC-47 (or equivalent) still working in South America? Even with turbo props (which I recall some got upgrade with) they would still be old and with guns – which the Greek ones don’t have…

Flood

The 375WEG at Tyndall is also a QF-4 operator, operating the drones on behalf of the USAF. However, there are no operational Phantoms anywhere in US military service (the 20FS only flies in US marked aircraft for tax reasons) and the Spooks that do fly are all drones. One thing about the F-4Fs: although they got quite a number of upgrades during the F-4-KWS program, a glass cockpit wasn’t part of that.

Oldest operational aircraft are probably indeed the Greek Dakotas, although a handful of other countries still fly DC-3s/C-47s as well. The Greeks are unique in having seen military service throughout their entire career, with now over half a century with Greece alone. I think these would be the only military aircraft from the 1940s still in service anywhere.

Aircraft from the first half of the 1950s survive in a number of countries, most notably the T-33s in places like Bolivia, Mexico and Iran. Albania still has a few airworthy MiG-15UTI’s from before 1955, which they got through China (which got them from both Soviet and Czechoslovak production) I think these would take the credit for oldest operational combat aircraft in the world.

If you look at the five years from 1955 to 1960, then there are literally hundreds of those still flying in airforces all around the world, with early C-130s and KC-135s being obvious of course. But lighter transports and utility aircraft also survive from this era.

The Antonov An-2 would have to be up there too. It is still used today.

True, but hardly any of the original Soviet-built An-2s survive. I think all current military An-2s are Polish-built, from the 1960s or later. And the aircraft can still be very young… Vietnam got a number of them factory-fresh from Poland in 1999, and China also still has them in production. That’s 57 production years… The H-6 (Chinese Tu-16 Badger) is appearantly also still in production, so that’s another aircraft having a production run over 50 years long.

F-4s

Thanks for that Crazymainer, I had no idea. Ah, F4’s, wonderful big noisy things. I used to have my eardrums split on a daily basis by the USAF throwing them up out of Alconbury in the late eighties. What with those, the TR1’s and the F5’s, and the RAF’s Canberra’s out of nearby Wyton, my neck of the woods used to be quite a busy place… (sigh…)

Hi Steve,

Here is what I found on the US F-4 fleet.

VX-30 Bloodhounds still/was using QF-4N/S for some interesting work over the Pacific Missle Range they were to be retired June of this year but my sorce say that at least five are still being flown.

Naval Air Depots (NADEP) MCAS Cheery Point SC also have roughtly 8-10 QF-4N/S for East Coast Missle Work.

The 20th Fighter Squadron Silver Lobos are the training Squadron for the German Pilots and Wizo they are flying F-4Fs with the glass cockpit mods.

Plus out at NAS Fallon they are still using QF-4E as Lawn Darts. :p

Cheers Crazymainer

Ian,

The last Gnats (Mk2s known as Ajeets) were phased out in 1991. They were inducted first in 1957 along with the Hunter and Canberra. The Hunters were phased out in 2001. The Canberra is the sole type from that year now flying.

Jagan

Indian Air Force (And year inducted in service – The First flown dates are even older)
Canberra – 1957 onwards – will be there till 2008
HS748 – 1961 onwards – will be there till 2010
MiG-21 – 1963 onwards – will be there till 2020
HJT-16 Kiran – 1964 onwards – will be there till 2015
Alloutte III – 1961 onwards – will be there till 2015

Indian Navy
HJT 16 Kiran
Tu-142 Bear

What happened to the single seat Gnats that the IAF use to operate ?

Indian Air Force (And year inducted in service – The First flown dates are even older)
Canberra – 1957 onwards – will be there till 2008
HS748 – 1961 onwards – will be there till 2010
MiG-21 – 1963 onwards – will be there till 2020
HJT-16 Kiran – 1964 onwards – will be there till 2015
Alloutte III – 1961 onwards – will be there till 2015

Indian Navy
HJT 16 Kiran
Tu-142 Bear