On Sunday I met a veteran who knew both Guy Gibson and Nigger

Blimey!

Nigger (there…I said it!) must be at least fourteen hands high!

Wow a levitating dog!

Yea, Paintshop Pro!

Sorry, didn’t expect anyone to look that closely.:D

I bet he’s got something better than Photoshop!

Wow a levitating dog!

Yea, Paintshop Pro!

It’s a real shame that the dogs name is such a big issue, History really should be seen in context and recreated as accurately as possible, otherwise eventually we will loose the truth.

This issue really is the tip of the iceberg.

However if the name were used the press will be all over it and the achievement of those Brave aircrew will be lost in a sea of Bull**** about whose offending who.

Personally it makes me smile to think anyone should or would get offended by a name and in reality I don’t think it would offend anyone.

The ordinary people would not complain its our corrupt politicians and press that would seek to profit by the use of the name, they would be forced to have meetings, form committees, press releases and run pages of print while fighting each other to see who can get their noses deepest into the expenses trough.

The real crime of PC Britain is the gradual dissolution of the right to Freedom of speech and the gradual erosion of the British way of life isn’t that one of the main reasons the War was fought, to preserve it.

When a thing like a Dogs name becomes an issue in the recreation of such an iconic and monumental event in British history you know its to late the Enemy is within.

I bet he’s got something better than Photoshop!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/2383809/Takeoff-looms

Moggy

Disregarding the dog for a moment. Just looked at the picture in the link above. Doesn’t look much like Lincolnshire to me :diablo:

In all probability the name won’t feature at all, perhaps a few shots of a black labrador being fussed by aircrew before departure

Patting a dog’s corpse? That would be an odd gesture by superstitious aircrew 😮

…. better yet, get him to join the Military Aircrew thread “Gaining a RAF pilots brevet in WW2” on PPRuNe

He was far too nice a guy to send him anywhere near Pprune.

But fear not, behind the scenes moves are afoot to capture his reminiscences

The man himself, as you can probably guess

Moggy

I think the codename for breaching the dam is only a very small detail when you consider the massive logistical effort of the raid in terms of aircraft and men, and the effects on those on the ground. Surely this is the really important story here.

I just don’t think it’s worth getting too excited about whether they use the N word or not from a historical point of view. It’s been recorded elsewhere and is well known.

I’m staggered by the irony of the correct location of the Whitley crash, and that there were/are remnants there, is posted by Me109….
Likewise, the OP is about meeting a man who knew Guy Gibson and his dog.
It then goes pear shaped about involving Stephen Fry and his dogs name. In all probability the name won’t feature at all, perhaps a few shots of a black labrador being fussed by aircrew before departure and then the news that the dams have been breached.
Do we need endless discussion about the PC Brigade, whether or not you can access East Kirby on a Sunday etc etc.
Get back on thread.
I’m sure Moggy can contact Mr Le Marchant and ask him for more memories to post here about his time as a rear gunner…
…. better yet, get him to join the Military Aircrew thread “Gaining a RAF pilots brevet in WW2” on PPRuNe which has a pilot and F/Eng reminiscing on their training and subsequent Ops. life etc….
If he DOES post on here, I would like to think that a bit more respect would be forthcoming for him

Hi Moggy,

After ordering the crew to abandon his pilot was killed while trying to forceland the aircraft.

28th Dec 1942

10 OTU
Whitley V
Z6669

Coded F for Freddie

Sgt F Charlton
P/O Clutterbuck
Sgt Glencross
Sgt Llewellyn
Sgt J R Worthington
Sgt H Le Marchant

Op A/S Patrol, took off RAF St Eval at 05:53 hrs

Ran out of fuel on return from patrol in bad weather and abandoned, Trewinnon Cross, Devon. Sgt Charlton tried to crash land after the crew abandoned but at 17:20 hrs he crashed and caught fire at Coobes Head Farm, Lewannick, Cornwall.

Regards
Ross

Ross

it was Coombes Head Farm, visited the site a couple years back, and found some airframe fragment’s lying around 🙂

A suggestion which may appeal to his cousin Peter Jackson! And get David Frost spinning in his grave!

Sir David is more likely to be spinning at the thought of being in a grave.
He is, as of this writing, alive.

But that movie’s already been done…

Does Quid think only the buffs remember Hitler, Stalin, Churchill et al? More than half the people I know can tell you who Monty was but havent a clue about Gibson unless they are black & white movie buffs, which they are not.

I really liked “The Full Monty”, though I think they changed a few of the facts of the Field Marshal’s life…

Cheers,
bob

Never once heard him called ‘Nigsy’

D’oh! :rolleyes:

It is funny how controversial ‘historical accuracy’ has become, I mean, do we really want historical accuracy from our filmmakers?

I cannot remember where I read it but apparently when Gibson asked for ‘his dog’ to be buried at midnight, when he would be attacking the dams, the Flight Sergeant he asked told him to ‘Bury his own bloody dog!’ Now I don’t know if that is true or not but would we want it in the new Dambusters film?

It has also been suggested that Gibson mishandled the fuel-controls of the Mosquito and actually caused the crash that killed him. Would we want that in the epilogue of a movie about him?

I now deeply regret my reply on this thread.

By association I have linked a crew and their selfless pilot, who died trying to save an aircraft which he thought of value to the war effort with what seems to be an overriding need by all here to rivet count on the text of a film script.

A sad day when this overshadows the deeds of this man and his crew.

It isn’t that the sacrifice made by Sgt Charlton is overshadowed by the minutiae of a film script…

…it is just that anything I can think to say about that sacrifice would be totally inadequate.

removed irrelevent

hmmmm interesting….no matter how accurate or not the film will be it doesnt alter the fact that Nigger and Gibson are probably the two most famous names to come out of ww2 (to the masses that is not just all the buffs).

Does Quid think only the buffs remember Hitler, Stalin, Churchill et al? More than half the people I know can tell you who Monty was but havent a clue about Gibson unless they are black & white movie buffs, which they are not.

Perhaps in the interests of historical accuracy and the minimal possibility of causing anybody offence, as well as giving the movie a big star, perhaps this forum should tweet Mr Fry and suggest that Samuel L Jackson should play Guy Gibson in the movie:D – this PC casting would certainly get more americans to view the movie! A suggestion which may appeal to his cousin Peter Jackson! And get David Frost spinning in his grave!

one would presume he picked the codeword after his dog (not a bad presumption?!)….so both are historical facts….

Indeed,

But if the code name is left out why would it hurt the “story” ?

There are always going to be lots of facts that are not used, why does that one matter?

Nope…

one would presume he picked the codeword after his dog (not a bad presumption?!)….so both are historical facts….