Source: BBC News
On-the-spot fines planned for careless driving
Police will get powers to fine careless drivers on the spot, rather than taking them to court, as part of a government strategy to make Britain’s roads safer.
Ministers say motorists who tail-gate, undertake or cut others up often go unpunished and that introducing instant penalties would be more efficient.
Offenders would get a fine of at least £80 and three points on their licence.
Critics say the approach – likely to be introduced in 2012 in England, Scotland and Wales – is too simplistic.
Currently motorists who have driven in a careless manner have to be prosecuted through the courts.
Transport Secretary Philip Hammond will give a written statement to MPs on Wednesday explaining the new strategy for England, Scotland and Wales.
Following this, the proposals will have to go through Parliament.
Plans for an 80mph speed limit for motorways and reduced speeds on country roads are not included in the legislation, but are part of ongoing plans.
Drug crackdown
Mr Hammond told the BBC that the fines would not change the government’s approach towards serious offenders but was for “low-level” offences.
He said: “We’re going to crack down on the most reckless and dangerous drivers, we’re going to support those who are basically law-abiding but who perhaps have an occasional lapse.”
The Department for Transport (DfT) said it would also include a clampdown on drug-driving and the closing of loopholes that allow people to escape drink-driving charges.
Disqualified drivers would have to undergo retraining, and possibly take another test, before they got their licence back.
Courts would be encouraged to make more use of their powers to seize vehicles for the most serious offences.
There will be support for new drivers who need to hone their driving skills, and wider range of retraining and education courses for cases of less serious offences.
‘Greatest danger’
A DfT spokesman said: “By giving the police the tools to deal with those who present the greatest danger to others we can make our roads even safer.
“While seeking to do everything possible to tackle the most dangerous drivers, the strategy will also help the responsible majority to improve their driving.
“This is the government’s twin approach to improving road safety.”
But the Institute of Advanced Motorists said on-the-spot fines were not necessarily the right approach for careless driving because, unlike speeding, cases were often not clear-cut.
It also said their introduction could make police reluctant to enter into lengthy prosecutions even in more serious cases.
Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC Foundation, agreed that the proposals should help tackle anti-social driving but expressed concern over whether the police had the necessary resources.
He said: “The three things needed to make these plans work are enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. With police services being cut it is far from certain the desired results can be achieved. Without adequate enforcement there is no strategy.”
I am of two minds on this one, will great to see something done about careless drivers but I cannot help think that it’s actual implementation will be very much up to the interpretation of the police officer on the day.
Personally, I’d rather see every driver go through more advanced, and recurring training. It is wrong that you can pass your test at 17 and never be tested or checked again. This would do several things, first it will raise the standard of driving. It will get people off the road that really shouldn’t be on the road, reducing the amount of traffic, and help meet environmental goals. Drivers will be more aware of other cars, and more importantly cyclists, bikers and HGVs.
Obviously, for that to happen public transport would need to be improved…
By: Creaking Door - 11th May 2011 at 16:53
How many of the young drivers of today have never, or have never been allowed, to cycle on the roads? I often think that the lack of situational awareness of young drivers is down to this in many cases.
I also noticed a rather worrying proposal to lower the speed limit on ‘country roads’. As somebody who lives ‘in the country’ I’m not sure what this is supposed to achieve and wonder where these country roads are that suffer from speeding-related problems; presumably I can expect more speed-cameras to be erected to ‘police’ said new speed limits!
If the government wanted to improve road safety why not introduce compulsory eye tests; more frequently as we age as drivers.
By: Creaking Door - 11th May 2011 at 16:51
…I genuinely sense that the diminishment of discipline, courtesy and tolerance in life generally has been echoed in peoples’ driving habits…
Add to that list laziness…..so many drivers these days are just too lazy to drive well!
By: Grey Area - 11th May 2011 at 16:02
That’s a fair point. However I genuinely sense that the diminishment of discipline, courtesy and tolerance in life generally has been echoed in peoples’ driving habits. Of course I cannot prove it and many will not agree with my thesis.
Well, I agree with you.
That’s one, at least. 🙂
By: Lincoln 7 - 11th May 2011 at 15:50
There is an old man a couple doors along from me. He can barely walk, and needs assistance getting into the car. I cannot understand why he should be allowed to drive when his wife – who goes everywhere with him – can also drive. What would happen if he had to do an emergency stop, or avoid something quickly.
Jim, I don’t think your idea should be limited to those over a certain age. I think all drivers should be made to do it. I was following a car full of young females, every one of them was using there phones, and this was on a main road just down from a school.
Pete, that may be the case regarding actual driving ability over the years. Even so the amount of traffic on the roads has increased such that peoples bad habits are magnified, or seen more often.
I agree with your first comment, but first find a Copper to catch them, just about impossible.(The car full of youngsters)
As regards Pete, both he and I have covered many thousands of miles and have adjusted to the ever increasing number of drivers and vehicles. When in the States AFTER I was 60, I drove 676 miles in one day, mainly from Southern California. vegas Grand Canyon Phoenix and back,cruise contrrol, aircon all helped, and at no time, did I feel uncomfortable driving on the wrong side of the road, unlike some I have seen here in the U.K.
As regards the disabled driver, whilst I do not know his circumstances,whilst he may be not able to walk well does not mean his driving ability has been affected.Don’t go down that route, as you may well step on a “Bouncing Betty” and start a right riot.;)
Lincoln .7
By: Sky High - 11th May 2011 at 15:37
Damn – you spotted me…………….allthough how you could see me whilst you were texting as well as rebooting the satnav, I will never know…………:p
By: Lincoln 7 - 11th May 2011 at 15:32
Yep, Travelling in the fast lane, driving South, on the North bound carriagway, at 40, MPH. 😀
Lincoln .7
By: Sky High - 11th May 2011 at 15:27
Ah, well – we’ll have to agree to differ. No bad driving is excusable but the young should know better, as should the middle aged, but the old cannot help the reduction in their physical and mental abilities as we all know, so those younger should display more tolerance.
Of course we all think we are good drivers, but I hope I drive carefully, courteously with a keen awareness of what is going on around me. And in case you are wondering I do not drive at 45 in the middle lane of the motorway with a straw hat on – I’m in the outside lane!!:diablo::diablo:
By: Lincoln 7 - 11th May 2011 at 15:21
With respect, Linc, I do not think we can lay the blame solely at the doors of the old. My extensive annual mileage has revealed quite appalling driving, as I suggested in my earlier post, but across the age range. Generally speaking the young are lacking awareness and often courtesy, the middle aged males intolerant with flashes of recklessness, middle aged woman lacking knowledge of their vehicles dimensions and the old, sedate and courteous. There, that’s a nice sweeping series of generalisations just waiting to be shot down.
And we have to remember that, frustrating though it may be, there is no minimum speed limit.
In any case as you so vividly illustrate the sight of a patrol car is a rare thing so the enforcement of these or any new regulations is unlikely.
Pete, I can live with the youngsters, middle aged, women who cannot judge the width/length of their vehicles, but as I am in the upper age group, in my opinion, we over 60 are the worst, (And your in that group :p) In the nicest possible way of course.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: Sky High - 11th May 2011 at 15:16
That’s a fair point. However I genuinely sense that the diminishment of discipline, courtesy and tolerance in life generally has been echoed in peoples’ driving habits. Of course I cannot prove it and many will not agree with my thesis.
By: ThreeSpool - 11th May 2011 at 15:11
There is an old man a couple doors along from me. He can barely walk, and needs assistance getting into the car. I cannot understand why he should be allowed to drive when his wife – who goes everywhere with him – can also drive. What would happen if he had to do an emergency stop, or avoid something quickly.
Jim, I don’t think your idea should be limited to those over a certain age. I think all drivers should be made to do it. I was following a car full of young females, every one of them was using there phones, and this was on a main road just down from a school.
Pete, that may be the case regarding actual driving ability over the years. Even so the amount of traffic on the roads has increased such that peoples bad habits are magnified, or seen more often.
By: Lincoln 7 - 11th May 2011 at 15:10
Further to my last, Careless Driving, and deeper causes, I would sooner go to Court for careless driving offences then rely on a Copper who is trying to reach his monthly targets(And YES they do have them, they have had them for the last 44 yrs to my knowledge.), as regards Careless Driving, being judged by just one or two, is wrong, the offending driver may well have extenuating reasons, which can only be argued out in a Court of Law with if needed a Brief, for the Defendant.As for undertaking yes, definately an on the spot fine of £100.00. min.
Lincoln .7
By: Sky High - 11th May 2011 at 15:09
With respect, Linc, I do not think we can lay the blame solely at the doors of the old. My extensive annual mileage has revealed quite appalling driving, as I suggested in my earlier post, but across the age range. Generally speaking the young are lacking awareness and often courtesy, the middle aged males intolerant with flashes of recklessness, middle aged woman lacking knowledge of their vehicles dimensions and the old, sedate and courteous. There, that’s a nice sweeping series of generalisations just waiting to be shot down.
And we have to remember that, frustrating though it may be, there is no minimum speed limit.
In any case as you so vividly illustrate the sight of a patrol car is a rare thing so the enforcement of these or any new regulations is unlikely.
By: Lincoln 7 - 11th May 2011 at 15:00
Fixed penalties are O.K. for the offences as are at the moment, I.M.H.O. However, regarding people taking an Advanced driving test, I can say that as an X Patrol Car driver, Advanced, with several refresher courses following, the “Civvie” standard is far lower.
I am sick and tired of these old men and women 60, plus, who when in a 60 mph limit crawl along at 40 or thereabouts,, and you all know it’s a fact, the Sunday driver frequently proves that point. I think every driver over the age of 60, should have a re test every 5 yrs. It’s surprising, but as a properly trained Advanced driver never seems to fail to forget the way when needed, that method automaticaly comes back, like riding a bike, you never forget.
for donkeys years I have wanted to see the offence of tailgating, an on the spot fineable offence, and lorry drivers are the worst offenders.How many tailbacks on Motorways do you see backed up traffic, as one HGV in front of another has suddenly braked, and the one behind is so close he has tailgated the one in front causing an RTA.
I as a matter of fact, live next door to our local nick and every day, I see the cars parked outside the nick, they very seldom go out, I am given to understand this is because I am told it’s because, of the paperwork, which poses a question, if they dont go out, how are they generating the paperwork, thats keeping them in.
Whilst the Governments intentions are seemingly good, they will, never get implimented, as they can’t even get their men WALKING the streets.
I am 70 in July, and all I have to do to keep my D.L. is to fill a Form in to get it renewed, I think, that a driving test also should be mandatory.And no disrespect to the elderly,but many should never be allowed on the road.They are an accident waiting to happen, and cause other drivers frustration as regards their driving skills or rather, lack of them.
Lincoln. 7
By: Arthur Pewtey - 11th May 2011 at 13:23
And who is going to enforce these laws (which largely already exist) – is it the police whose numbers are being cut? On a recent trip to Scotland and back we saw one police car.
Maybe “undertaking” wouldn’t be a problem if drivers pulled over from the middle lane. Maybe pulling over wouldn’t be a problem if there weren’t so many speeders in the outside lanes such that it is difficult to pull out to pass.
In an effort to save fuel, I try and cruise at around 70mph but it is very frustrating when you get stuck in the inside lane or tailgated in the middle or outside lanes.
Another proposal that looks good for headlines but not much else.
By: Sky High - 11th May 2011 at 13:06
Carelerss driving can be prosecuted now but this is an attempt to reduce court time. Due to the fact that the police are rarely in evidence to witness this category of infringement and because of the likelihood that a number of those charged will appeal and go to court anyway added to the point raised earlier that the judgement is bound to be subjective, I cannot see much merit in the proposals.
Having driven around 50/60,000 miles a year for the last 30 years, my impression is that the quality of driving in terms of awareness, courtesy and skill is worse than it was in earlier years.
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May 11, 2011 at 12:56 pm