One week till first flight?

Mind you, I was right.
The A380 hasn’t broken even yet and it was delayed massively.

Never did I say it wouldn’t fly or will go straight to the Mojave though. Which is a little uncalled for.

He he…could you stick your chin out a little further in future so we can get a better shot at it

You are of course right that first/early adopters are usually the subject of much scepticism, or worse, until they prove their new technology in anger. However, for each succesful aeroplane made of metal or train going at over 30mph, there have been technology failures. Actually, I am not suggesting that the 787 will be a failure – far from it – but I do think that there will be more bad news to come before we’re all paying good money to ride around the globe in them. And I never said that the 787 would go straight to Mojave either – the “will it ever fly” quip was/is just that, derived from Boeing’s repetitive failure to deliver on any first flight date they’ve proposed, rather than it being an absolute proclamation by me that it will never fly. Even you, being [ahem] pro-Boeing, must admit that their credibility is shot to pieces right now, and that ANY first flight date they propose for the 787 will be greated with some degree of scepticism by both industry insiders and observers alike.

Andy

Just what I’d expect from the Boeing fanboy of the forum! :rolleyes:

In any case, if you care to read around the subject – of the 787 and its current problems – you’ll find some industry people far better informed than you or I still have doubts about the vaibility of large composite load carrying structures in airliners. Whilst I am not yet suggesting that these “experts” know better than Boeing, the current situation certainly leaves enough room for concern over whether further problems might surface. Lets put it this way – if I was getting a new job in airliner sales right now, I’d rather be selling A380s than 787s – whether I’d retain that view long term or not remains to be seen.

Andy

I take offence at that. I think I’ve shown I have a balanced view.
I call crap when I see it, I call good when I see it.

Yes experts have doubts about the materials used. It was the same when metal was first used to entirely construct an aircraft. “It’ll be too heavy”, “It will rust” etc. The same flavour as the doubts on the viability of the railway when first introduced “Going above 30mph will cause you to suffer a heart attack” was one argument by a well known doctor of the time.
The point is, there are always doubts about the viability of a material when being used in a certain way for the first time or something new altogether.
I myself, for what its worth, am a little worried about the 787 as a whole. It’s the first of it’s kind and I think it will stumble quite a few times.

That does not translate to the 787 never getting to fly and going straight to the desert as you seem to support. That is sensationalist tosh.

http://www.lonelyscientist.com/

Interesting reading for those who have some time… It certainly puts a different view on the use of composites in large airliners.

Andy

Sensationalist clap trap, from the both of you.

Just what I’d expect from the Boeing fanboy of the forum! :rolleyes:

In any case, if you care to read around the subject – of the 787 and its current problems – you’ll find some industry people far better informed than you or I still have doubts about the vaibility of large composite load carrying structures in airliners. Whilst I am not yet suggesting that these “experts” know better than Boeing, the current situation certainly leaves enough room for concern over whether further problems might surface. Lets put it this way – if I was getting a new job in airliner sales right now, I’d rather be selling A380s than 787s – whether I’d retain that view long term or not remains to be seen.

Andy

Mind you, I was right.
The A380 hasn’t broken even yet and it was delayed massively.

Never did I say it wouldn’t fly or will go straight to the Mojave though. Which is a little uncalled for.

Moderator Message

If I had posted such clap trap about the A380, I’d have been moderated.

But you did, and you weren’t! :diablo:

Every member of these forums is perfectly free to post innocent claptrap to their hearts’ content – and many of them exercise this freedom on a regular basis.

GA

Ouch! A raw nerve there. Only observations from the 2 members concerned surely. C’mon man, as aviation fans we all want to see her fly. 😉

If I had posted such clap trap about the A380, I’d have been moderated.

Not good news, at least not a total cancellation of the entire order. Ironic in a way that for Airbus the A350 XWB may in the end have an easier ride into service production, purely because the financial landscape may be better with industry confidence returning. Don’t envy Boeing on this one-its never easy being first, especially in a recession.

QANTAS has cancelled orders for 15 Boeing 787 Dreamliners and delayed the deliver of a further 15 aircraft due to turbulent market conditions.

But the national carrier says it remains committed to the new the carbon fibre jetliner.

Qantas said it had reached a mutual agreement with Boeing to defer the delivery of 15 Boeing 787-8 aircraft by four years and cancel orders for 15 Boeing 787-9s scheduled for delivery in 2014/2015.

Chief Executive Alan Joyce said the changes to the group’s B787 orders were appropriate in the current climate.

Mr Joyce said discussions with Boeing, which commenced some months ago, had not been influenced by the announcement this week of a design issue and further delay to the aircraft’s first flight.

The cancellation of 15 B787-9s would reduce the group’s aircraft capital expenditure by $US3 billion ($3.73 billion) based on current list prices, Mr Joyce said.

Mr Joyce said Qantas announced its original B787 order in 2005 and the operating environment for the world’s airlines has clearly changed dramatically since then.

”Delaying delivery, and reducing overall B787 capacity, is prudent, while still enabling Qantas and Jetstar to take advantage of growth opportunities and market demands, both domestically and internationally,” he said.

Mr Joyce said Qantas remained committed to the aircraft as the right choice for Jetstar’s international expansion, Qantas’s growth and as a replacement for Qantas’s B767-300 fleet.

Source:The Herald Sun

Sensationalist clap trap, from the both of you.

Ouch! A raw nerve there. Only observations from the 2 members concerned surely. C’mon man, as aviation fans we all want to see her fly. 😉

Is it correct that the wing-fuselage joint of the static testbed 787 started to delaminate at 120% in April?

Should that turn out to be true Boeing has just been cut in half and Airbus has a free homerun for the next two decades.

Now the failure of NASA to do a large carbon fibre testbed ten years ago (only now they fly that modified Dornier 328) has dire consequences.

Qantas said it was confident that it could meet its timetable for deploying Boeing’s new 787 Dreamliner despite Boeing again postponing the first flight of the much-delayed new aircraft.

Boeing didn’t give any further details on the delivery schedule for the 787, but any further delays wouldn’t necessarily be a problem for Qantas, which said in April that it was negotiating with Boeing on a possible near-term reduction in delivery of 787s the airline has on order.

Qantas was “finalising” its review of its expected 787 deliveries, having firm orders for 65 of the aircraft and rights for an additional 50, Qantas spokesman Simon Rushton said.

Qantas expected to receive its first 787 in “mid 2010”, he said.

Source: Dowjones

Yes, agreed on both points

That may be true, but as has been said before; it would probably have been far better if Boeing had given a more realistic time frame for production-first flight-EIS. They should have at least heavily over estimated the time frame so that it gave them room for delays and perhaps even the chance to finish early.

Never mind, we don’t talk so much about the A380’s delays any more so I’m sure these will almost be forgotten about in the future.

One has to remember, the 787 is the first of its kind.
No one has ever built a commercial airline of this size with the materials they are using.
There is a whole new world of snaggs waiting in the wings to delay the testing.

Is it not better to take the punch of a few cancellations on the chin and deliver a save and reasonably mature product?

I’m getting as fed up as anyone else, but I still keep what Boeing are actually doing in mind.

Damn, I really want to see this thing fly!

It’ll fly when Boeing are ready, and not a moment sooner. 🙂

Sensationalist clap trap, from the both of you.

Oh dear – Dreamliner becomes Nightmareliner! Will the plastic pig ever fly?

Andy

Probably …straight to the Mojave Desert with all the other obsolete airframes

Flightglobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/23/328724/boeing-took-decision-to-delay-787-first-flight-last.html

Oh dear – Dreamliner becomes Nightmareliner! Will the plastic pig ever fly?

Andy