Opinions on today's Flying Legends

Wouldn’t it be easier to have a poll and that way there could be a fairly accurate judgement on hown many enthusiasts enjoyed and and vice versa ? Seems rather pointless as present to rattle on about price,ladders,windbreaks and French commentators !

Well said bump.

I agree entirely. If you dont like the ticket prices and think its too much then DON’T GO!

Don’t pay for a ticket and then whinge about it!

The price increase is a little thing called inflation! Live with it!

Wise words EN830!
The worst things about Legends…..and the forthcoming RIAT are the whingers harping on about the entrance fee year after year.
As the comparison chart of days out listed by EN830 shows, you get good VFM at the airshows.
Sorry but when I see rants about most of the shows, I just assume that person does nothing else with their lives except go to airshows, anyone that has bought a ticket for their favourite band or football team, or taken in another attraction like Alton Towers will have an idea of the cost of other days out.
The Red Hot Chilli Peppers have toured the UK recently….I haven’t a clue how much their tickets were but I’m guessing they were’nt cheap………wonder if their fans are bemoaning the costs of the tickets on their fansites?………I think its a condition peculiar to a minority of airshow crowds.
Constructive criticism re position of the aircraft on the flightline etc etc is fair enough……but the constant gripes about pricing and xenophobia breaking out over the excellent Mr Chabbert is tiresome (its true, how would Mr Maffett get on at La Ferte Alais?!)
If you can’t afford it tough, don’t go and don’t spoil threads with the same predictable whinges every year……there are loads of things I’d love to do but can’t afford, but just accept it…..its life I’m afraid.

or presque vu?

Maybe it is a case of jamais vu……..

IWM State Funded

The IWM may be state funded, not sure that Duxford is fully funded however. Hence the admission charge.

Why is it such a trait of the British to criticise everything that is good, then moan like h**l when things are no longer available.

While I am on here I would like to remind people that there were nearly 100 volunteers working over the weekend, some working in excess of 24 hours over the two days, for a packed lunch! Don’t forget them, I very much doubt there would be a show without them all attending.

I thought it was against the rules to resurrect old threads

This is not an old thread.

we’re already in Europe… 😉

regarding legends – this is turning into an annual event:

The Great Post Legends Whinge

I thought it was against the rules to resurrect old threads

You can fly to most of Europe with £34 on a budget airline and go faster than the aircraft at Legends.

Mind you, you’ll not be as happy afterwards.

Just a quick one about the apparently expensive tickets.

Premiership football matches are about 30-50 pounds for 90 mins entertainment. Air displays are 10-30 pounds for a complete days entertainment.

can we start moaning about rooney and co instead of having a go of something that is good value for money!

I do have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone know why the RACo Mustang didn’t display today, despite displaying yesterday and departing with the RACo Buchon and Hurri at the end of the show this evening?

‘Susy’ had a magneto failure on Saturday due to heat sink and although it was OK once it had cooled it was too risky too chance flying it at high temps during the display. Its normal flight home posed no probs for Taff and will not affect their planned displays at Breighton during the weekend.

Speaking of which, we will be having something of a ‘warbird fest’ ourselves at Breighton the weekend (15/16 July) – nothing like the scale of the wonderful FL but we expect to have 3 x P-51’s, Buchon, OFMC’s Spitty (plus possibly another one), Hurricane and a Corsair stutting their stuff during a planned four hour display… should be worth the entrance fee of £10! Advert over!

the impressions of an italian at DX:
Other than this, fair weather, marvellous atmosphere and above all the funniest airshow commentator ever! That french chap is unique, we were thinkin about creating an appreciation club! :p
“zee french air force shot down over 900 german fighters during zee battle of France!” simply hylarious! 😀

I have to agree with nearly all of the above, with one exception. I transferred my (very amateurish) camera footage of the Sunday Legends onto video last night and found the “french Chap” commentary, when it wasn’t mercifully drowned by engine and or wind noise, really irritating. One particular instance was when the BBMF Lanc, Spitfire and Hurricane gave their flypast, really sobering and impressive, when reflective silence is called for. As the trio fly over we hear ” You ‘av leetle boys and beeg boys, the leetle boys are thur fightuurs and the beeg boys are thur bomberrs”. Also on my soundtrack is a frustrated outburst at the same time from a nearby member of the public “and you are a ********* French t*** “.
Unique? possibly, funny? Not to some in the audience that’s for sure!
Apart from that it was magnificent and we are so lucky to witness it for £30, gallic diatribe notwithstanding!

the impressions of an italian at DX:

just as I said in a previous post, it was a marvellous occasion to see a unique gathering of warbirds, to spend some time with some really nice chaps, to buy some interesting books, prints, aviation junk etc…
I enjoyed every single bit of it, yes, the ticket price was kinda high, but always less than an average concert or a world cup ticket…
4 quid for the display line? Well since u spent 30 for the airshow…

Dont complain too much chaps, one day we’ll say “I remember when u just needed 30 quid to see the most beautiful airshow in the world!” 😉

The only complaint I have to do is towards some of the other spectators: the “colonizing” of fences is disgusting, there’s really no justification for it.
Your chair has been thrown away or moved? Fair enuff, we all have the same rights, and if u arrived earlier this doesnt give u any right, period.

As per stepladders… banned? naaaah, i’d rather gather them all in well fenced “stepladders area”, I’m sure the obvious competition for the highest ladder will give some headaches to the ATC 😉

Other than this, fair weather, marvellous atmosphere and above all the funniest airshow commentator ever! That french chap is unique, we were thinkin about creating an appreciation club! :p
“zee french air force shot down over 900 german fighters during zee battle of France!” simply hylarious! 😀

Cheers

Alex

P.S.
yes yes, I know….WE ARE WORLD CHAMPIONS!!! 😀 😀 😀

An added detail – £13 will get you entry to the IWM on a normal day. So the airshow is a “mere” £17 on top of that.

Thought I’d do a comparison of various events and ticket prices, these are not to everyone’s tastes, however if you think that a visit to Legends can last from 8 in the morning to 6 or 7 in the evening, and that includes the IWM Collections as well as the hangars etc, and then compare to these various locations and think of what you would get for a comparable price !!!!

Longleat Safari £19 Passport Ticket or £41 in total for individual attractions;
London Eye £13 Standard or £25 fast a time;
London Zoo £13.50;
Flying Legends £30.00 or £34 with flight line walk;
La Ferte Alais Airshow €25.00 (£17.25)
RIAT on the Day £36.00
Madonna in concert in Cardiff internet price of £112; or
Man Utd v FC Porto in Amsterdam £72.00 for a behind the goal seat.

Moggy, you may be right, if you are, its even more of a testament to Stephen grey’s dedication to the warbird movement; either way one cannot argue that the TFC volunteers, do not put their all into the event. I personally enjoyed the flying immensely ,and a credit to them that the Thunderbolt (to name just one) was serviceable for its last public appearance in the UK. I am sad to see it go , but do not question why or complain about that; as a wealthy man he might just as easily collect modern art ,rather than aeroplanes, and he might hide them away from public gaze, where indeed would we be then. But the IWM is state funded, and as UK residents we fund the state; shouild we accept everything handed to us as being right and correct,(weapons of mass destruction etc) ,are we not allowed an opinion on our national collections (which ever ones). One can never know whether EN830 is serious or not ,that would be the down side to a dry sense of humour, however, places like DX are for everybody ,primarily to educate people (its not just children that need it). It may be easy to compare legends to a football match, we may all sound like we are refereeing ,but in fact we are non executive directors, as the national collections are for the nation , then surely we must at some point have a say in what we collect and how we do it ,if that spills over into how the museums are run then thats fine also. I personally think this thread has run its course, and whilst some people have tried to turn it into the whingers versus TFC that is not ,nor has it ever been the case. from my viewpoint.

The last ‘horses mouth’ information I had was that their share of the income from Legends, with all charges including the flightline walk and the corporte marquees generates sufficient profit for TFC to cover just a proportion (not their entire) insurance bill for the fleet for a year. (ie. not rent, wages, light, heat, materials, etc etc etc)Moggy

I’ve heard that many of the Companies look to turn over enough revenue to pay just their insurance bill, which as Moggy has stated have increased significantly especially since September 11 and I guess again since 7 July last year, which the cynic in me thinks is just the insurance industry using these as an excuse to up their income and dividends.

Also, those of us who drive know that fuel costs have gone up significantly over the past twelve to eighteen months. Couple that to rents for hangar space, electricity, maintenance costs etc, which don’t come cheap and have a tendency to go up, I think £30 is a small price to pay for the privilege of seeing these fabulous aircraft in the air, compared to operating and owning one.

To me the Warbird world is akin to a football match, which is 22 men kicking a bag of wind around a field, refereed by 40,000 people. Owning and operating a Warbird Company is one or two people being told how they should organise their airshows and operate their aircraft by 40,000 non-executive directors.

It’s the same tune every year after Legends and has been for as long as I care to remember, it’s too expensive, too many wind breaks, prats with ladders, not enough toilets, paying to walk the flightline and expensive food. Number one in the Aviation anoraks hit parade.

I feel a letter coming on to Mr Grey and the people at TFC thanking them for a great weekend, and suggesting that they double the price of the ticket.

(1) It would only allow those of us who can afford to go to attend;
(2) It would stop the people who moan about the cost from going;
(3) It would reduce the number of people turning up with windbreaks and ladders because they won’t want to pay the price; and
(4) It will be easier to get around because the size of the crowds will be smaller; and
(5) Traffic congestion will be significantly reduced, because of all of the reasons above.

If the above reduces the numbers attending by half, there would be no effect on revenue. In fact it could reduce infrastructure costs in the long run, by reducing the need for extra bogs and catering facilities each year. Yes some of the stall holders may suffer, but lets face it did anyone want to buy AA membership or perfume over the weekend ????

If someone is prepared to say that “legends” doesn’t make any money unless they charge £4- a head man woman and child, for the flight line walk then let them speak.

The last ‘horses mouth’ information I had was that their share of the income from Legends, with all charges including the flightline walk and the corporte marquees generates sufficient profit for TFC to cover just a proportion (not their entire) insurance bill for the fleet for a year. (ie. not rent, wages, light, heat, materials, etc etc etc)

This was prior to the round of insurance cost increases of last year.

I think we should all say a big ‘Thank you’ to Mr Grey and his team.

Moggy

As you volounteered the estimate of revenue earned and your estimate was 100% out as you had omitted the balbo – and – it was using your estimated cost for a display I was not using specialist knowledge. I have no more access to costings than you do. I therefore fail to see how I was patronising you. It was simply correcting a gross underestimate of the costs involved which you were then using to substantiate the remainder of your argument. That is how misconceptions become treated as fact and need to be nipped in the bud quickly.

I am out of here.

It was not an estimate of revenue earned, as a large section of A/c displaying were neither from the Fighter collection nor DX itself, as such these would be outgoings ,not income. I never timed individual displays ,but I don’t think that they all went on for fifteen minutes, maybe the figure was an average of the total display time during the day and as such would include the balbo. In fact I used the figure of £3000- merely to illustrate that it was an expensive show to put on ; in another post I mentioned the cost of aviation fuel, using an average usage of 2 gallons a minute per A/C, as an illustration only; obviously the big multi engined planes would use a hell of a lot more , and conversly the single seaters with small engines (a relative term) much less. I would be interested ,(purely from a curious stand point) to know how much fuel was used in the event. If someone is prepared to say that “legends” doesn’t make any money unless they charge £4- a head man woman and child, for the flight line walk then let them speak.

I suspect as with most quotes on costs,think of a number then treble it.
A few aircraft which have flown before and did’nt this time would’ve added to the cost as well.
1, Stepladders should be banned unless at the back and anyone stuck behind one should have the right to get it removed.
2, commentator free zones,please
3,less marquees,if you walked down the main path you were pushed to see any aircraft at all.
4,Tannoy speakers should be low to the ground [for emergency announcements]
5,press,they are not needed,theres more than enough photos and publicity around from other years displays and public taken photos,beat some of these on these forums,i bet they can’t.If they insist on press,why not 1 man and he takes them all and gives them to people /press as required.
5,build more stands free for everyone to get a good view or buildbanks,why is the LWH Bank so popular?.
Just some ideas