Origins Of The Use Of Aircraft As Gate Guardians

I photographed the Speke Mosquito in 1968 on our way home from a holiday on the Isle of Man – managed to persuade Dad to divert from Liverpool Docks on our way home to Coventry! Can’t find the slide for some reason 🙁

On another note, although it wasn’t a Gate Guardian at an RAF station Armstrong-Whitworth displayed the A.W.52G outside their works at Whitley, Coventry, (now Jaguar) for a while.

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I seem to recall that it was scrapped around 1957 along with the Scimitar

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which ended its days in R.J.Coley’s yard …

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I’m thinking of starting a thread on “The One’s That Got Away” … what do you think?

Answered my own question by poking around the forum … http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?114348-Historic-airframes-preserved-then-lost-again

I’ve been in touch with Don Stephens regarding why the Mosquito TA634 was purchased by Liverpool Corporation in 1963. The answer seems to be that it was ‘a good idea at time’. There was no long-term plan for her care, just a vague plan to place her on public display in the future. Aviation enthusiast Don Stephens was the main mover in the scheme to bring the aircraft to Liverpool, incensed at the announcement that the RAF were going to scrap all the former CAACU Mosquitos without a thought of preserving at least one (remember this was well before the British aviation museum preservation movement got going). He was supported by his local MP Richard Bingham, who turn ensured the support of the Airport management and Airport Committee Councillors. I’ve added more detail on the nwan forum thread on derbosoft proboards link a few posts up.

Without Don’s persuasion and determination to see his project through to a successful conclusion, it is quite clear that the British preservation movement would be one Mosquito less today.

Good question. Indeed too good a question, as I no longer know the answer! At that time Liverpool was a ‘hot bed’ of aviation enthusiast activity, the MSAE (Merseyside Society of Aviation Enthusiasts) had published the likes of the first ‘Wrecks and Relics’ in 1961 and 2nd edition in 1963 (a direct descendant of the title soon to be in its 24th edition under Ken Ellis) compiled and edited by Don Stephens. It was Don who put the Mosquito purchase idea to Liverpool Corporation and pursued the matter to a successful conclusion. I have just e-mailed him asking what the arguments he presented were and why Liverpool went ahead with the purchase. I’ll pass on his answers in a day or two all going well.

Full story, except why did Liverpool Corporation actually buy it?

Moggy is correct in stating that Liverpool Corporation purchased a Mosquito TT.35, but for the purpose of preservation, not as a gate guard. It was a ‘hangar queen’ thoughout it’s time at Liverpool Airport, bar a couple of weeks. Bruce is a little out time-frame wise, but has the aircraft identified correctly (as indeed he should).

TA634 arrived at Liverpool Speke by air, from No.23 MU, Aldergrove on 6th November 1963 and was kept indoors at several locations around the Airport’s hangars until 1968 when it was prepared for flight, registered G-AWJV and was flown during the filming of “Mosquito Squadron”. After return to Liverpool it was again hangared, but with concerns that with no further income from flying work to pay for upkeep maintenance, the airframe was deteriorating. So in 1970 it was donated to the Mosquito Museum, leaving Liverpool by road for London Colney 29th September 1970, to join the prototype Mosquito – it has been there ever since.

Fuller story of this aircraft on http://www.derbosoft.proboards.com/thread/2946 along with photos of it’s time at Liverpool. However take it from me as a ‘local’ throughout the ’60s and the author of the linked thread, Liverpool’s Mosquito is a total ‘red herring’ on this ‘gate guards’ thread as it never was one!

Of possible relevance, pre-war there were a number of time-expired Hawker biplanes serving with ATC/CCF squadrons – maybe more training/recruitment aids than gate guardians, but it is a subject covered here before. Also I wonder if the airframes that were transported and exhibited around city centres fund raising during the war years contributed to the thinking behind RAF Stations having gate guardians post war?.

Maybe they threw it in the pond to keep formation with “Shangri-La”…

Now if some enterprising soul rustled up a deep sea diving suit from ebay, the use of the pumps onboard an old fire engine, a strong hauling machine,say a traction engine and maybe some keen manpower, there could be the basis of an “aircraft recovery expedition” without geophysics, visas or the need for tediously boring “forum mutually assured destruction”…

Failing that they could use the above as props for re-enacting some prime episodes of “Dad’s Army”…

Could the light blue low-back Spitfire have been the well-known JMR Mk.16?

No, that is well documented. TE357 is a possibility.

Could the light blue low-back Spitfire have been the well-known JMR Mk.16?

I think that has has been pointed out above it only became practical with the advent of all-metal airframes.

That being said, Liverpool Corporation / Speke Airport did position a Mosquito on the gate for a fairly brief period in the late 1950s, early 1960s.

Moggy

The Speke Mosquito was TA634 now at Mosquito Museum.

It was retired there after the Mosquito TT fleet was retired – in about 1968

Debden also had a Venom NF3 – WX853

Did’nt Debden also have a Vampire?

VF301 – I helped take it apart and move it to Baginton many years ago. There was a Hunter there too. Interestingly Graham Trant recalls a “light blue” low-back Spitfire there sometime in the 1950’s. Dismantled. Never been able to i/d it.

Here’s a photo of VF301 in the Autumn of 1972 when I went to have a look at it before we (Midland Aircraft Preservation Society) put in a bid for it. We paid £100 and the Tender documents said it was a T.11 …

Is this a case where military use followed civil use?

Consider the Fokker F-32 that ended up in the forecourt of a Los Angeles service station in the 1930s?

http://www.petersonfield.org/airplanes/NC334N/

Or the better-known example of the B-17 over the service station in Oregon?

Interesting to know where it began? Enterprising shop-owners, or the military? Different reasoning and purpose, but an aeroplane on display is at the centre of it.

Cheers,
Matt

I think that has has been pointed out above it only became practical with the advent of all-metal airframes.

Moggy

Then a Junkers CL.1 (J.8)? Or many other Junkers designs of 1914-1918*?

* J.1 of 1915, J.2 of 1916, J.4 of 1917, D.1 (J.9) of 1917, etc.

Did’nt Debden also have a Vampire?

Spitfire! That’s what got me thinking, most GG’s I’ve seen are WW2 or later. I’ve never heard of aircraft prior to that being used. did stations have them in the 1920’s or 30’s ? Or maybe it was a case of they wouldn’t withstand the weather being made of wood and doped linen. I know Army bases and Navy bases displayed guns, cannons, ship’s figureheads etc and it probably is an extension of that but I am curious as to when it started.

I recall seeing either a Spitfire or Hurricane on the gate at Debden, and later a meteor I think ?
I also remember the tanks “Romulus” and “Remus” on the gate at Castle Martin in South Wales. I expect they are gone now ?
That was when the German army were there.

I think that has has been pointed out above it only became practical with the advent of all-metal airframes.

That being said, Liverpool Corporation / Speke Airport did position a Mosquito on the gate for a fairly brief period in the late 1950s, early 1960s.

Moggy

Spitfire! That’s what got me thinking, most GG’s I’ve seen are WW2 or later. I’ve never heard of aircraft prior to that being used. did stations have them in the 1920’s or 30’s ? Or maybe it was a case of they wouldn’t withstand the weather being made of wood and doped linen. I know Army bases and Navy bases displayed guns, cannons, ship’s figureheads etc and it probably is an extension of that but I am curious as to when it started.

It’s probably an extension of the old armed forces practice of displaying guns etc, especially captured ones, outside barracks

Not strictly a gate guard originally but the earliest record I have of a Spitfire being used as a “display” aircraft – albeit within the camp – is BL614 which was sent from No.2 SofTT at Cosford to No.7 Recruits Centre, RAF Bridgnorth, on 20/4/48. It was still camouflaged but carried the serial M4354 on arrival. (See page 123 of Volume I of our book for photos and full details). It was transferred to Credenhill as a gate guard on 3/3/55.