Other CVF Partners?

With the History on the last 50-60 years it so hard to believe? Of course that is why “History” keeps repeating itself! To the detriment of the Human Race I mite add………………..:(

No, its not so hard to believe, but deep, deep, down beneath various layers of hardened cynicism I still have a small vague hope that people will learn.

Damn optimism just won’t die

Its wishful thinking on my part that people would pay more attention to what the parties say and do than just hospitals and tax cuts/raises. The fact that defence hardly merits a mention at all in election campaigns shows how disinterested people are until its too late, or until we get the horror stories of insufficient body armounr, bad accomodation, etc. (which will all be soon forgotten in tha face of some bright young thing telling the populace they can every x promises and then some AND miracously not pay more tax).

With the History on the last 50-60 years it so hard to believe? Of course that is why “History” keeps repeating itself! To the detriment of the Human Race I mite add………………..:(

Has the Italian Goverment expressed interest in replacing the Garibaldi with a second Cavour Class Ship???:rolleyes:

Not AFAIK, but I think the Italian navy has.

I would dread the day that the UK electorate voted for a party because it was committed to spending more on defence. Not that the government shouldn’t, but that it would mark the populace becoming overally nationalist. Of course it would be nice if more public pressure was put on the government not to be such a cheapskate.

Its wishful thinking on my part that people would pay more attention to what the parties say and do than just hospitals and tax cuts/raises. The fact that defence hardly merits a mention at all in election campaigns shows how disinterested people are until its too late, or until we get the horror stories of insufficient body armounr, bad accomodation, etc. (which will all be soon forgotten in tha face of some bright young thing telling the populace they can every x promises and then some AND miracously not pay more tax).

Garibaldi is a light stovl aircraft carrier.

Has the Italian Goverment expressed interest in replacing the Garibaldi with a second Cavour Class Ship???:rolleyes:

I would dread the day that the UK electorate voted for a party because it was committed to spending more on defence. Not that the government shouldn’t, but that it would mark the populace becoming overally nationalist. Of course it would be nice if more public pressure was put on the government not to be such a cheapskate.

To be a major power you have to have both Great Military and Economic Strength. You can have one without the other………….:( 🙁 🙁

If, the UK losses its two CVF Carriers and several more Naval Escorts (including two T-45’s) she will become a very minor player among major powers……….very sad state of affairs.:(

Fighting wars all over the place while at the same time cutting defence spending (except when it comes to nukes) is going to result in an embarrassing disaster one day. Unfortunately, it’s not going to be embarrassing for those directly involved, it’s going to be fatal.

Perhaps the question is “How stupid can a countries electorate be?”

I would dread the day that the UK electorate voted for a party because it was committed to spending more on defence. Not that the government shouldn’t, but that it would mark the populace becoming overally nationalist. Of course it would be nice if more public pressure was put on the government not to be such a cheapskate.

One major problem is that there is no alternative for the electorate – the conservative party are not going to be any different. Basically, it is a choice between one bad lot and another, and the Navy seems to be destined to become little more than a glorified coast guard (though without the numbers and esprit de corps of the USCG).

I see Beedall has just published his review of the RN for 2006, it makes very grim reading indeed and he is also now hinting at possible cancellation of CVF and the sale of some of the T45’s. I would suggest any Brits have a couple of very stiff drinks before reading it………… you will need them 😡 🙁

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/index.html

You’re right, I need drinks. 😡

Why, why why, why, why!!!! How stupid can one bunch of politicians be?
Perhaps the question is “How stupid can a countries electorate be?”:mad:

Garibaldi is a light stovl aircraft carrier.

A second Cavour Class Carrier would make sense. Except isn’t the Garibaldi an Amphibious Ship? Much more like a LHA/LHD than a true Aircraft Carrier?:rolleyes:

No, Garibaldi is a pure aircraft carrier, with no amphibious capability, as you can see from the official web pages –
http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/garibaldi.htm
http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/portaerei.htm

Doesn’t even have the loading ramps Cavour has, & as you can see, the MMI calls her a “portaerei”, which tells you something.

Within the next few years Italian Navy must think a substitute for Garibaldi, in my opinion an improvede Cavour class :confused:

A second Cavour Class Carrier would make sense. Except isn’t the Garibaldi an Amphibious Ship? Much more like a LHA/LHD than a true Aircraft Carrier?:rolleyes:

Italy:
Wants F-35B, & has already built a carrier suitable for it. Unless F-35B is cancelled, any new Italian carrier is likely to resemble Cavour

Within the next few years Italian Navy must think a substitute for Garibaldi, in my opinion an improvede Cavour class :confused:

It’s always been planned to buy the F-35B, but the ships are expected to last longer than the airframes (a pretty safe bet), hence the decision to build them big enough to operate CTOL aircraft, in case there aren’t any STOVL options when the F-35Bs wear out.

I was talking more in the short-term………….as F-35B’s could operate off simplier amd cheaper platforms. Which, the larger and heavier F-35C’s could not……………….:rolleyes:

Doesn’t ordering the (STOVL) F-35B vs the (CV) F-35C really hurt the chances of the CVF Program? As the F-35B could operate from a much smaller and simplier (i.e. cheaper) designs!

It’s always been planned to buy the F-35B, but the ships are expected to last longer than the airframes (a pretty safe bet), hence the decision to build them big enough to operate CTOL aircraft, in case there aren’t any STOVL options when the F-35Bs wear out.

Come on guys we had better find a partner for the CVF or it is Going…. Going….Goooooo……..glug glug glug.

We have a partner for the CVF. We can’t find any other partners, because there isn’t a single other country in the world in the market for a similar ship at the moment, except perhaps China (& if so, they’re not owning up), which we’re embargoing.

Come on guys we had better find a partner for the CVF or it is Going…. Going….Goooooo……..glug glug glug.

Doesn’t ordering the (STOVL) F-35B vs the (CV) F-35C really hurt the chances of the CVF Program? As the F-35B could operate from a much smaller and simplier (i.e. cheaper) designs! That said, I personally don’t think the CVF Program is going anywhere………….just way to many jobs and national pride on the line! IMO

Its now or never

I don’t want to move the thread away from the CVF and towards politics but these views in todays Telegraph are I think important in the overall debate as to why decisions that are needed on projects like CVF are not being made. A bit of positioning and interservice rivalry no doubt, but we are hearing this more an more.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/24/narmy24.xml

Come on guys we had better find a partner for the CVF or it is Going…. Going….Goooooo……..glug glug glug.