P40 F soon to fly in Australia and another is about to fly

Lot’s of The Spit’s based in Darwin simply overheated on the ground and in flight, Tally Ho! Phil.(must crash now,” Gut Nacht “,Well put John.)

the worlds only flying P40F with Merlin Power

I didn’t even know where were still any F-models around! Great stuff! 😎

I’ve seen P-40s at Duxford several times and they are really great performers, able to give a spirited show. Keep us updated! 🙂

Hi Wombat

I pretty much agree with you and the same more or less goes for the Aircobra too but the P40 was as you say rugged and reliable. The Spit really flopped here in Aus and the Pacific probably because we only got knackered/ obsolete ones but it wasn’t anything to write home about. The P51 pretty much arrived when it was starting to end anyway so we will never know how much it could have done. Mcarthur didn’t let us play front line Fighter anyway so our role was support/attack and the P40 was a great ship for this…..

Kindest regards
John

Hi Setter

I agree with you that the P-40 had a pretty important and almost illustrious role to play with the RAAF in the SW Pacific and North Africa, but my point was that it was a “second-rate” fighter for almost its entire service life. Allison “power” limited its capabilities, as Allisons did to nearly every thing they were fitted to, but the P-40’s basic airframe was very old technology by 1942/43, being based on the P-36 as it was, and I wonder why they bothered re-engineering it to take the Merlin.

Even the P-40Q, which was almost an entire re-design, could not overcome the basic faults of the original design and it lagged behind more modern aircraft.

The P-40 was a very solid, well-sorted and reliable aircraft. It provided a sound gun platform and could absorb substantial punishment.

It just didn’t have the aerodynamics to match later aircraft, nor did the design possess the ability to be developed in the way that the Spitfire, Mustang and many other more successful aircraft could.

That said, it is wonderful to see so many of them being restored and taking to the skies.

Regards

Wombat

Hi re engines
I don’t really know why the Merlin engine was put in the P40 – Shortages of Allisons ? I will research it.

I don’t share your opinions of the P40 – It served with Distinction in the desert air force, the Pacific and in Russia so I think a lot of aces would disagree with you. Spitfires failed in the Pacific and the P51 was too late reaching us so I reckon here in Aus the P40 is OK by most of us.

I would hope somewher between 1 and 3 P40’s make it to Avalon – I think all 3 should be flying by then.

Regards
John P

could we see the P40F at Avalon? Or any P40, I’m not fussy.

Why did they bother?

I knew that there were Merlin powered P-40’s produced, but have often wondered why?

Given that they were only a second rate fighter for much of their existence, why did they bother developing a Merlin version? I know that the performance would have been superior to the Allison versions, but it was still quite inferior to other front line aircraft in the UK and the States.

So, why were P-40’s developed with Merlins? And whose idea was it, the British or the Americans?

Regards

Wombat

TOOOO GOOOOD.

Great stuff john again mate 😀 , Thank all who got these pic’s too us again please 😉 .
Not long Now 🙂 , and seeing it in person will make my millenium :p , Cheer’s all, :dev2: Tally Ho! Phil :diablo: .

Even with those (financial) limitations, they seem to make a good progress. I hope their hard effort wil be rewarded.

Nothing but good news is coming from the south this week. Another great tread John. 😎

J.V.

The simple reason is economics I’m afraid. The P40F wreck was a cheaper option for recreating an RNZAF P40E than acquiring a genuine RNZAF P40E, because everyone wants to rebuild P40’s to flying these days so they’re not cheap. The museum is only allocated a mere NZ$10,000 (about 3,000 quid) per year for restoration, and considring they are currently rebuilding a Vildebeest and an Oxford alongside the P40, money is somewhat stretched I guess. Most of their engineers are volunteers, ex-RNZAF men.

Great to hear these are progressing nicely. Can’t understand why they’d want to convert a P40F back to an E model though. The F must be rarer and would/should be more sought after. Still, always glad to hear of more Hawks being restored/rebuilt.

Great to see John. This P40F will certainly be a unique aircraft once it’s flying. I seem to recall seeing photos of it when it and another P40F were dug out of a swamp looking decidedly tired.

The other one is also well on the way to pristine condition here in New Zealand, with the RNZAF Museum. However the Merlin is to be replaced with an Allison because it is being backdated to a P40E model.

The one in Christchurch looks stunning. Most of the wing structure is brand new, and although it’s intended just for static, it is rebuilt to airworthy quality (like all the Museum’s aircraft, it is their policy).

Does this Australian-based P40F still belong to Judy Pay? And, I’ve often wondered, is Judy Pay any relation to Col Pay? It would seem a huge co-incidence if Australia’s two leading Warbirds personalities have the same name and are no relation.

Here’s a snap I took in February of ‘our’ P40F.

Still kind-of slightly missing my point but that’s alright. My question is really a rhetoric one for a pub or some such place. Personally I’m really enjoying seeing more and more things that don’t have Merlins in them (nothing against Merlins, just that they’re everywhere) come back to life – some/many of them new build but that’s OK. And I wouldn’t change a Buchon – it should be what it is – but I do think they look much better with the Hispano engine in them!

Setter, sorry for drifting your thread a wee bit off topic – I didn’t appreciate initially that there was/is such a thing as a Merlin engined P40 – my ignorance, now rectified.

Thanks for that – I didn’t of course mean literally that everything is Merlin powered. It’s just that I notice lots of Merlin powered aircraft on the Warbird scene. I daresay winning the war helped in that regard (as in the lack of destruction of manufacturing capability, and lots of intact aircraft and engines and spares etc.) so maybe that accounts for it in part.

This thought/question actually came to me initially in JDKs model Buchon thread, where I have left a similar open question – why the Merlin (instead of Hispano engine in that particular circumstance)?

I guess when it comes to a Buchon they were made with a merlin engine and spares a still easy to get, It would be daft to change it for a rarer engine and give yourself more problems, I personally wish to see a Buchon in correct markings its a Warbird in its own right and should have at least one flying to show its Spanish heritage, They are a a really mixed up Aircraft in my view a German design a British engine built in Spain, Makes you love them more i think.

great to have another P-40 in the air, especially a P-40F powered by a merlin!!

Thanks for that – I didn’t of course mean literally that everything is Merlin powered. It’s just that I notice lots of Merlin powered aircraft on the Warbird scene. I daresay winning the war helped in that regard (as in the lack of destruction of manufacturing capability, and lots of intact aircraft and engines and spares etc.) so maybe that accounts for it in part.

This thought/question actually came to me initially in JDKs model Buchon thread, where I have left a similar open question – why the Merlin (instead of Hispano engine in that particular circumstance)?

There’s a penny very slowly dropping for me over these few months I’ve inhabited this place. This P40 is Merlin powered. Everything seems to be Merlin powered. Why?
Is it because …
– there’s a thriving rebuild, parts market?
– there’s a lot of crankcases or other fundamental parts about the place?
– they’re better (if so, in what way)?
– they’re cheaper?
– there’s not really anything else?

The Merlin is the correct P40 so is a great addition to any collection,I have always wanted to see a P40F partly to see how different it is from a Allison powered one.
I kind of disagree that everything is Merlin powered many rebuild or reworkings end up with Allison engines think of the new build yak3s and yak9s as a example,Its natural to say there are more merlin engines flying than any other WW2 engines but then they did power some of the most inportant and sucessful Aircraft of that era.

Hi Gnome

Please see the post I put up about Wangarratta elsewhere

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35342

– there are 4 of them and the first is in the jigs being rebuilt as we speak – photos see

http://community.webshots.com/user/setter125

and look for wangarratta at the bottom of my collections

I have around 2000 photos given to me by Tony Andrews who visited there last week

Kindest regards
John P

Cheers Setter …. a ki61 – where? Any web-links?

Hi Gnome

I think it is just a coincidence – Have a look at the wangarratta pics on my other thread – 10 to 12 Allisons there and Col Pays P40 is about to fly with an Allison as are several others in NZ. Merlins are nice too of course !! but then so are the ki61 Db “enhancements’ etc all happening soon. It’s going to be great over the next few years “Downunder” no matter what powers it!!!

Kindest regards
John P