PA474 to Visit Berlin…?

Some years ago i was at the ILA Berlin, and there where 1 ore 2 Mustangs. When they did there power check a few older people started crying. For them it was a frightning sound.

There is an interest in heritage being preserved and displayed. Many regard history as pastimes which fascinate but cannot be changed.The appearance of equipment and sometimes re enactors can be classed as entertainment and also as a memorial to all those lost. It can also result in discussion however I see that as positive. I doubt that any rational person will treat flyovers as a mark of dis respect. Quite the opposite. And flying former Luftwaffe types over the uK has happened without a national out cry.
Actual harm is done by those who seek to distort history.

I don’t buy that for one second, just look at the massive public support for the ‘Two Lancasters’ fandango last summer

Like they did this past week with the DB-engined Buchon?

While I see your point, there is a large difference in general public (not necessarily the aircraft-loving public) attitudes towards fighters and bombers.
Witness the apparent attitude in the UK of Fighter Command vs. Bomber Command…

What would the reaction in the UK be if the Luftwaffe Historic Flight (If there was such a thing and had such airworthy aircraft) did a tour of the UK with a Ju-88, He-111 and Do-17?
Think the folks of Coventry would be amused?

At this point, war survivors are getting pretty rare, but many other lost relatives so they still might have a problem with such tours.

I think if any of these aircraft were ever to make it over here the crowds would come flocking,see the 109 and even a Flugwerke 190 can draw people in.We drive Jap cars,German cars powered by the makers of the aero engines.

Like they did this past week with the DB-engined Buchon?

What would the reaction in the UK be if the Luftwaffe Historic Flight (If there was such a thing and had such airworthy aircraft) did a tour of the UK with a Ju-88, He-111 and Do-17?
Think the folks of Coventry would be amused?

At this point, war survivors are getting pretty rare, but many other lost relatives so they still might have a problem with such tours.

Has Sally B been over there ,what was the reaction to a B17?

In the late 1980s I went to a number of airshows with a German chap who would have been about 10 when the war ended. He could pick up the sound of the Lancaster long before anyone else could. He would just freeze for a few seconds, listening until he was sure what he could hear and then carry on. He actually liked seeing the aircraft but his initial reaction to the sound always made me think of the scared young boy who still living inside this grown man.

Anne

Bring her over here, fly her on airshows, no problem. People will come / pay to see this.

But I can also imagine seeing a Lanc flying over the Möhnedamm would be quite frightning for some of the older generation … don´t know what memories that could bring up.

well if it was in this country we’d all be off to the local ”where theres blame theres a claim” outlet and filing for Post traumatic stress disorder!

Personally i think its all B**ls anyway, how far do you take these things? the luftwaffe performed at RIAT in a Tornado the other day, The japanese turned up in their new P1, which was beautiful by the way!, if were not gonna let bye gones be bygones then we shouldnt let Lufthansa land at heathrow should we? what was it, ”alls fair in love and war? ”. we shouldnt pretend that it didnt happen, any more than we should try and stir things up, it happened, many countries lost lives as will continue to happen in this politically /religion fuelled world that we live in. if we took a British bomber to Germany it would merely be a salute to the lives of people who were lost. Its not rubbing their face in it.if were going to take things this far then are we going to stop repeating the Battle of Britain, The Dambusters and 633 squadron every bank holiday? I think not!

At least nobody took potshots at you – I hear Germany is still overrun with elderly gents with 88s in their cellars! 🙂

We took the Lancaster to Laarbruch in Septmber 1982 for an airshow which many Germans attended.

Actually we took PA474 to Hamburg in 1987 I think it was at the request of the organisers of possibly the Hamburg Air Show. They had wanted us to go for a number of years but the RAF thought it not to be politically correct and kept coming up with excuses. Fortunately this year they came up with the security concerns card. No problems said the Germans, we will park you in the president’s 707 security area. Couldn’t turn that one down so we went. We were shown great curtisey and were warmly welcomed. On a day off trip into Cologne in our Mufti, BBMF blazers, we stopped in a square where there was a pageant of some sort in progress. While we were watching some of the entertainment and elderly Gentleman approached me and pointing to my BBMF badge proceeded to tell me that he had been a Messerschmitt pilot during the war and that he was glad we were keeping aircraft from that time alive in England and thanked us for coming. He said it did not matter what nationality the aircraft were, just there being was a reminder and a memorial to people of all nations lost in the war, or words to that effect. So I hope this clears up some of the comments above. I am glad we went for the air show and no I don’t think it would be polite to fly her over Berlin, unless they asked us too. By the way I also took Hurricane LF363 and Spitfire AB910 to a show in Munchen Gladbach. From 1984 to 1988 I was a Corporal engine fitter on the Flight.

I don’t think Mr Rhodes’ post is at all ‘rubbish’ or ‘stupid’, re-read his post and note the bit about ‘travelling exhibition’, do you not think that this suggests that his idea of the Lanc returning to Berlin under peaceful circumstances would be one to further reconcilliation between our two nations?

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with the idea. 90% of Germans would probably have no problem…

Unfortunately I would worry that some stupid so called “political” group may just use it as an excuse for some idiotic vandalism, and damage a priceless piece of our history.

Bring her over here, fly her on airshows, no problem. People will come / pay to see this.

But I can also imagine seeing a Lanc flying over the Möhnedamm would be quite frightning for some of the older generation … don´t know what memories that could bring up.

I don’t think Mr Rhodes’ post is at all ‘rubbish’ or ‘stupid’, re-read his post and note the bit about ‘travelling exhibition’, do you not think that this suggests that his idea of the Lanc returning to Berlin under peaceful circumstances would be one to further reconcilliation between our two nations?

If you disagree with it, at least make a balanced non offensive arguement.

Anyhow, welcome to the forum.

Best Regards, Steve

I still don’t think it is appropiate or would achieve much. Reconciliation would be done by people, not aircraft.
cheers

But, would the Germans?

I kinda like the poppies idea.

What absolute rubbish, what a stupid thing to post 😡 . Like “let’s send a restored He111 over London’s east end”? that’s unacceptable and offensive to ppl of all geberations I think.

I don’t think Mr Rhodes’ post is at all ‘rubbish’ or ‘stupid’, re-read his post and note the bit about ‘travelling exhibition’, do you not think that this suggests that his idea of the Lanc returning to Berlin under peaceful circumstances would be one to further reconcilliation between our two nations?

If you disagree with it, at least make a balanced non offensive arguement.

Anyhow, welcome to the forum.

Best Regards, Steve