Pakistani military ordered to attack Americans

Here’s a reality check for those who think that we’re not taking our job seriously.

As unfortunate to say this as it is but perhaps your people, more specificlly the ISI will now start to take this more seriously seeing as what happened in Islamabad at the Marriot hotel. Some old wise saying springs to mind i think it goes “you reap what you sow”

I wish your people all the luck in the world in the fight agaisnt Islamic terrorism.

Here’s a reality check for those who think that we’re not taking our job seriously.

Kurram tribesmen welcome Govt’s decision of operation

PESHAWAR (updated on: August 16, 2008, 20:14 PST): The two major tribes of Kurram Agency i.e. Tori and Mengal have highly welcomed the decision of the Federal Government of launching full fledged operation against the extremists engaged in bloody clashes for the last eleven days that has virtually paralyzed the agency.

The elders of Tori, Mengal and Bangash tribes have announced their full support to the government in getting rid of the extremists, which have ruined peace of the agency.

The local people of the agency have highly welcomed decision of advisor to Prime Minister on Interior Rehman Malik about taking actions against the extremists in Kurram agency.

It is pertinent to mention here that the main Peshawar- Parachanar road is closed for all traffic for the last 10 months, which has left 5,00,000 population of Parachinar virtually besieged. There is acute shortage of oil, medicines, and kitchen items in the agency as four more children died due to lack of medicines in the agency headquarters hospital on Saturday.

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Pakistan Air Force fights back

14 militants, 3 women killed in Bajaur

KHAR/PESHAWAR: At least 14 militants and three women were killed in bombing by fighter jets in Mamoond tehsil of Bajaur Agency on Wednesday, locals said.

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Pakistan Military – Frontier Corps kill 15 Taliban in Kurram Agency

ISLAMABAD/KURRAM AGENCY:

The Frontier Corps (FC) has killed about 15 Taliban in Kurram Agency in an operation. The FC was directed to launch the operation after all efforts for ceasefire between warring factions in the agency failed, said a press release issued by the Interior Ministry here on Wednesday.

The statement said a jirga from Hangu was dispatched to Kurram Agency to establish ceasefire between the warring factions. However, both sides violated the ceasefire and the FC was directed to establish the writ of the government.

Adviser on Interior Rehman Malik is closely monitoring the situation in Kurram. The press release said that on Tuesday night, between 300 to 400 Taliban militants attacked an FC post at Matak. The troops repelled the attack, inflicting heavy casualties on the militants.

Meanwhile, the jirga has sought more time to bring peace in Kurram Agency. Online reported that the toll in Wednesday’s fighting was 21 killed and 35 injured as clashes between the rival Bangash and Toori tribesmen continued in various parts of the agency for the 14th consecutive day.

staff report/online

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Khyber tribesmen kill four Taliban

by Qazi Rauf

BARA: Four local Taliban were killed and another was injured in a clash between tribesmen and militants in Khyber Agency’s Bara tehsil on Wednesday. The clash, in which heavy weapons were used, erupted when the tribesmen tried to stop a car carrying Taliban militants in the Malik Dinkhel area. The militants opened fire at the tribesmen, who retaliated with rocket fire and killed four Taliban and injured one.

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Thousands of foreign militants present in Bajaur: Hoti

PESHAWAR: Chief Minister Amir Haider Hoti Thursday disclosed that thousands of foreign militants are present in Bajaur and the tribal agency would have been captured by the miscreants if the military operation was delayed for a couple of days.

He made this disclosure while winding up debate on law and order in the provincial assembly.

Hoti said the present state of affairs in FATA and NWFP is not a law and order problem but can be termed as insurgency. He said there is clear difference between law and order situation and insurgency. Similarly, the policy to tackle law and order situation and insurgency are totally different, he added.

He said the militants whom government is fighting are not local people, but foreigners.

He said before launching military operation in Bajaur, he sent a jirga for holding talks with the militants.

The jirga, CM continued, returned with empty-handed and said that the people present in the agency are not local people but Arabs and Chechens who are not accustomed with tribal norms.

Hoti said government cannot hold talks with foreign militants who are not willing to surrender arms and have sent message of war to the government. The agenda of these miscreants is only destruction and nothing else, CM remarked.

He reiterated that if government had delayed military operation for about three days, the militants have hoisted their flag in the agency.

Referring to the miseries of people due to the operation in Hangu district, the chief minister said government takes decision about conducting operation in any area as a last resort when all options fail.

He said government options are very clear. First of all government wants solution to the problem through negotiation and if talks fail, the government carry out developmental works in the area so that people are provided facilities and if they are feeling sense of deprivation, it could be removed. The third option is involving local people for solution of the problem and the last option is taking up arms against those who are persistently challenging writ of the government.

He said army cannot be removed from areas where operation was conducted. Because, he continued, army’s presence is to avoid return of flushed-out militants from these areas.

The chief minister said government will withdraw army if local people held out the assurance that escaped militants will not return to these areas.

While responding to a suggestion of constituting jirga to hold talks with militants with full authority, Hoti asked the four MPAs who floated this suggestion to forthwith form a jirga and start talks with the militants.

know the truth

Yes they do, but when the country in question does not do the job of ensuring that attacks launched from its territory go across a sovereign border then to a point they lose the sovereignty argument.

if Pakistan was serious about its sovereignty it would ensure that it’s tribal areas were not being used in this way. You can’t have it both ways.

There is sufficient enough evidence to support deliberate US discrimination in so far as Taliban is concerned. They have attacked the tribesmen in our areas who’re neutral or are pro-Pakistani. Why hasn’t the US attacked ‘Baitullah Mehsud’, who has been anti-Pakistani and is behind many suicide bombings within Pakistan?

The ‘Tribal Areas’ you speak of, are not being used in any way. The only abuse and misuse here, is that of America. Where it shows its clear support for the ‘Farsawanis’ (Persian speaking, Shi’ite Afghanis) who have been refugees in Pakistan since the Soviet invasion. These people hate Pakistan because we supported Taliban after the Soviets left.

They’re the ones who’re acting as a conduit for the clandestine arms funding of terrorists in Pakistan and who have crossed the border b/w Afghanistan and Pakistan. They’re the ones who’re being supplied with indian weapons and in turn re-supply them to the Pushto speaking, Farsawanis, who disguise themselves as Taliban.

America knows that this is happening, as it had allowed india to open over seven diplomatic offices throughout Afghanistan. And America shows its betrayal when it indiscriminately attacks on tribesmen and talibans who support Pakistan and are fighting the likes of ‘Baitullah Mehsud’ in a bid to destroy his ability to carry out more attacks in Pakistan.

Oh we are very serious about our sovereignty, which is why we’re hitting both the anti-Pakistan Taliban and have been ordered to retaliate (to defend) against Americans. We’re doing our job, perhaps if the Americans weren’t so incompitent in doing theirs, they wouldn’t have found themselves in such a predicament.

If they were really serious about getting Taliban, then they wouldn’t have spent 5.2 billion dollars per week in Iraq for the past four years. While their forces in Afghanistan were being slapped around by the Taliban.

We’re serious about catchin this retard bin laden, cuz the sooner we catch him, the sooner this whole God forsaken mess is sorted and we can get back to our normal lives.

Oh and incase you were wondering whats going on in the ‘Tribal Areas’, I have news for you, the govt liaison officer’s motorcade was attacked two days ago. As protocal, when we see helicopters, we’re to stop our vehicles, step out and raise our hands in surrender. That is excatly what the govt liaison officer and his men did (his son was there as well).

The US helicopters hovered there for a while and then left. Before these people could start getting back in their vehicles, the US returned and rained down bullets on them. These were Pakistanis, govt representitives in the tribal areas. They were fired upon, in their territory, by foreign troops and the liaison officer’s son lost both his legs in the attack.

Huh, you say we’re not taking our job seriously! Perhaps you should ask yourself, if the Americans are doing their jobs seriously, killing their own allies. I’m sorry to say, but all i hear is just a bum rap, nothin else.

When is earth going to get sucked by the micro-singularity? I bet the Evil Ori have something to do with this…:mad:

More news…

Stargate Atlantis canceled….

Stargate Universe has a go (stargate inside a ship…..very inspiring :rolleyes:)

Not at all surprised that Atlantis is canned but SG Universe seems to me like a big mistake.

On a happier note, I’m content that the Sarah Connor Chronicles got a second season which has already begun.

===

In other news looks like Al Qaeda has struck again in the US embassy in Yemen.

The Wall Street implosion—and the financial tsunami that can wipe out hundreds of billions of dollars in markets around the world—is the one piece of news that will have the most fundamental effect in our future, since it threatens to engulf the world in a new great Depression.

Yeah well. I wonder when it is that the US wakes up to the biggest con job perpetrated on its troops fighting in on Afghanistan and reads the law to Pakistan.
I ain’t hoping though, ‘coz like its gonna happen.

Nick, do not lose hope. May be the evolving strategic partnership with India would give US a bit of wisdom, and they will be able to see ‘real’ Pakistan which (i guess) is only possible through Indian eyes.

We just had our umpteenth attack in India, traced via forensic evidence & intel to their handlers back in Pak.

Everytime there is an attack, its always Pakistan. Ok, for the sake of argument lets say it is Pakistan and ISI. Then may be you would like to enlighten us which particular forensic techniques Indian scientists have been using that yield such quick results to pinpoint blame with such accuracy?. Take a look at Madrid bombings, London bombings and so on. We in the west have access to most sophisticated forensic technologies and have massive network of interlinked cameras. Yet it took our highly trained agencies weeks and months to find the culprits (who were not even highly trained professionals). OTOH, ISI must be a very professional organisation indeed considering the simple fact that Indians/US and many others have not been able to stop them carrying out their terrorist activites in spite of spending billions. So please do tell us on what grounds are you suggesting that such a professional organisation would leave such easy traces for primitve (compared to west) Indian forensic scientists to detect so easily? Lets talk about intel now. Why is it that intel sources always seem to blame Pakistan AFTER and attack has happened and that so quickly? Take a look at UK/US and so on. Of course there have been terrorist attacks but our agencies have worked their butts off to stop them from re-occurring. Its high time Indian agencies look at their basic organisation and structure so they could also thwart these attack before they are actually about to happen. They should be taught not to go into that hyper mode straight after an attack and blame Pakistan – I mean if the India intel is so good that they could pinpoint the culprit so quickly after an attack, the question is where on earth was that intel prior to an attack?

We are hurtling towards Andromeda which will “devour” our milkyway. Perhaps you meant Universe (as in Multiverse theory?).

Well. Could be either.
Dimensional curve in a higher dimension can bring two points of a lower dimension closer and in contact. And so we may well be headed towards another galaxy.

Another universe could be an option too. But according to membrane theory, the alternate universe is right here…right next to you and i. And we may already be it! who knows and how could one tell??? I know i woke up today feeling a little funky and im sure my fridge had moved 1 inch while i slept 🙂

Or so it seems. 🙂
The thing with dimensional shifts is that you can not see outside your dimension anyways. So we may well be hurtling towards another galaxy for all we know!

We are hurtling towards Andromeda which will “devour” our milkyway. Perhaps you meant Universe (as in Multiverse theory?).

Or so it seems. 🙂
The thing with dimensional shifts is that you can not see outside your dimension anyways. So we may well be hurtling towards another galaxy for all we know!

When is earth going to get sucked by the micro-singularity? I bet the Evil Ori have something to do with this…:mad:

More news…

Stargate Atlantis canceled….

Stargate Universe has a go (stargate inside a ship…..very inspiring :rolleyes:)

The good news is that at least we got to survive the LHC turning on without any dimensional shifts.

Or so it seems. 🙂
The thing with dimensional shifts is that you can not see outside your dimension anyways. So we may well be hurtling towards another galaxy for all we know!

Lots of other news too.

Iraq’s Nouri Maliki breaking free of U.S.
As the prime minister asserts his independence, Iran gains influence and America loses some.
By Ned Parker
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

September 16, 2008

Looks like the Iranians achieved in Iraq through deft diplomacy what the US failed by using force.

And btw, I don’t think any of those news mentioned can compare to the Wall Street meltdown, Merril Lynch getting bought out, Lehman Bros. declaring bankruptcy, AIG looking for a government bailout, not to mention Freddie Mac and the Fannie Mae bail outs too.

The good news is that at least we got to survive the LHC turning on without any dimensional shifts.

Yeah, god forbid freedom of speech on a forum.

Set up your own forum with your own rules, it can be done for free even. Everyone posting here agreed to the rules as a condition of membership, so I have to ask what’s wrong with expecting people to follow them and act civilly to one another?

Besides, this is Key Publishing’s forum, a bunch of intellectual lightweights running around slagging people in a public forum may look bad.

If you want a forum where there appears to be a different set of “rules”, I can offer one uppp :diablo:

Gee thanks, Sean!

Hey now, my name is down there too on this board 😀

Back to the issue at hand…

We just had our umpteenth attack in India, traced via forensic evidence & intel to their handlers back in Pak.

And that is precisely what I was referring to.

ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) which runs the terror campaign in India and supports the Talibs with logistics and training

Is there any direct evidence linking the ISI to the Taliban or other anti-Coalition extremists hiding in Pakistan? I ask not because I doubt your claim but because Vikasrehman was right and this is one part of the world where I admittedly am not as up to date as I could be.

The more relevant question is why did the US send ground forces to raid a house on the pakistani side of the border and kill 20 civilians including women and children.

My initial thought is that they thought someone was there that was potentially important enough to try and take alive. I do have to wonder just what went on, because I doubt that the SOF guys just walked into a house, found no insurgents, and simply gunned down the occupants.

On the other hand, I cannot honestly say that there is absolutely no chance that they didn’t provoke or create an environment resulting in a gunfight to try and get out with no witnesses to their presence. Obviously if that was their goal, they failed, but it is an interesting line of thought.

Seriously?

Look, every nation has a right to its own territorial sovereignty, including Pakistan. But what exactly are they going to gain from this move? Let’s say that this actually happens and Americans are killed. The media over here is going to go into supercharge mode and describe it as Pakistan killing Americans to defend terrorists. Which they would be doing, sure, but not necessarily overtly. Then the President will scrap all of the US-Pakistani ties, put them back on the sanction list, withold their F-16s, and declare Pakistan a supporter of terrorism. Which they are obviously, but again not necessarily overtly. Play this game for six months to a year and the US forces in Afghanistan will be relocating in a southerly direction.

There is always more to the story then meets the eye. Heres my take of the situation.

The more relevant question is why did the US send ground forces to raid a house on the pakistani side of the border and kill 20 civilians including women and children. And no high or low profile target was killed. The same house could have been destroyed by the american drones that fly from pakistan bases AND have the authority to fires missiles as agreed to between pakistan and the US. The drones have been used for years now and also fly from pakistani air bases. So why the need to send ground forces in for which there is no agreement with pakistan and more importantly, why now?? My view is that this incursion was supposed to target a real militant house but it went bad and they ended up killing civilians and that raised temperatures more then was planned in pakistan with their parliment getting all excited and demanding restraint.

The US elections are playing a part in the timing of this as the bush admin wants to steal the thunder from Obama. But the real reason may lie in the meeting that was held on the US carrier between mullen and kiyani about 2 weeks back. At that time, both sides said a new understanding has been reached and it will be a 3 phased approach. We have seen two phases already. Phase One, an incident providing space for the pak army to operate in and gaining the hearts and minds of the tribes. and phase two, operation by the pakistan army against the militants.

The big gainer in this showdown is the pakistani army which has gained the support of the tribes once again. And this is by design. The “show down” with the US has provided the pakistan army the space to launch a massive operation in bajaur agency in the past week that has resulted in 600 taliban killed for the loss of 40 soldiers. Suddenly, the tribes are supporting the army operation against the militants because the tribes now think the army is on their side. And hence greater room to move and operate in the tribal belt.

The US admin also wins by proclaiming it acted before obama ever got the chance and showing how tough it is against the taliban. Both pakistan and the US get to pander to the domestic galleries and come out looking winners. I expect this to go on till the US elections.

You’re thinking with blinders on. I didn’t say Pakistan supported the Taliban or AQ specifically, I said they supported terrorism. Pakistani-backed militants are under the US radar because they aren’t blowing up American targets.

Yeah well. I wonder when it is that the US wakes up to the biggest con job perpetrated on its troops fighting in on Afghanistan and reads the law to Pakistan.
I ain’t hoping though, ‘coz like its gonna happen.
We just had our umpteenth attack in India, traced via forensic evidence & intel to their handlers back in Pak.

Indian Govt. (predictable response):”the dastardly perpetrators shall not break our resolve”. Yeah well, you useless political cretins, its easy to be tough when y’all use choppers/protected cavalcades, have Z++ and what not acronym security. The rest of us have to grin and bear it.

Paks response of course to each time folks get upset (over such minor trifles like a few dozen folk dying, several more crippled etc) is like the sherriff in blazing saddles – put a gun to their own head & bleat about how extremists will take over the country if Pakistan/ the Pakistani Army is destabilised.

Yeah well.

Earth to saturn.

The extremists took over a long time back & they ARE the Pakistani Army, namely the Army staffed & run ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) which runs the terror campaign in India and supports the Talibs with logistics and training vs the ISAF/US/UK in Afghanistan.

And the Pakistani Army including Musharraf, and now Kiyani are fully in the know & have always looked the other way, since a proxy war is easy, and fulfills Pakistans “Strategic objectives”, without getting their army into another war which they cant win. So Pakistan deploys 100,000 troops (another ridiculous figure btw) who occupy British era forts, rarely stir out, and promptly strike peace deals with the Taliban when they do. Anybody remember the ridiculous charade of a Pakistani corps commander shaking hands and embracing his so called enemy & while the Pak Govt is asking for aid in the US because of the heavy fighting thats going on! Yeah…sure..!

In the meantime, the ragtag paramilitary Frontier Corps is used to conduct antiTalib ops, whereas the regular Army engages only “bad militants” (those who dont follow ISI writ, versus those who do), publishes ludicrous inflated figures of “thousands of Pakistani troops have died in the WOT & what not” and promptly ask the US for P-3C’s, AN/TPS-77 radars, F-16’s because we all know the Taliban have a Navy, Air Force and etc.

Oh btw, the anti Taliban Frontier Corps, the great fighters of the Taliban – got bombed recently. When they opened fire on US/Afghan troops so that Taliban fighters could get back into Pak & the US guys called in Air strikes.

Gee, thats the premier Anti Talib force. Meanwhile the Pak Army strike deals.

As long as the Taliban exist, the Gravy train flows. NATO keep asking Pak to “do more” & let our supplies through, and the US pays up.

And Pak can continue to make merry in India & Afghanistan.

Nice double game.

When will the world wise up & have Pakistan end this charade?

Not like its going to happen.

Yeah, god forbid freedom of speech on a forum.

Thank you for that considered and helpful intervention, J B. :rolleyes:

2. Only if immaturity reigns.

When hasn’t it here? (Especially when if gives everyone the chance to bash America?) :rolleyes:

Moderator Message

1. Whoops. You’re absolutely right, I thought I put this in General Discussion. I’ll self moderate and fix that…..

Gee thanks, Sean! :rolleyes:

OK, folks.

Everyone take a deep breath, read the Code of Conduct before posting, and think positive thoughts about your fellow humans.

That way, we’ll all stay happy.

GA

Britain has adopted Sharia Law, indeed! My erse, we have…….

Attention moderator!
1.This thread does’nt belong here.
2.A verbal war is going to start in no time.

1. Whoops. You’re absolutely right, I thought I put this in General Discussion. I’ll self moderate and fix that.

2. Only if immaturity reigns.

Hundreds of Pakistani troops have died in battles against Taleban and their tribal supporters over the recent years? Hundreds of terrorists have been killed or arrested and handed over to US by Pakistan. Would you label that as overt or covert support of terrorism?

You’re thinking with blinders on. I didn’t say Pakistan supported the Taliban or AQ specifically, I said they supported terrorism. Pakistani-backed militants are under the US radar because they aren’t blowing up American targets.

Look, every nation has a right to its own territorial sovereignty, including Pakistan. But what exactly are they going to gain from this move? Let’s say that this actually happens and Americans are killed. The media over here is going to go into supercharge mode and describe it as Pakistan killing Americans to defend terrorists. Which they would be doing, sure, but not necessarily overtly. Then the President will scrap all of the US-Pakistani ties, put them back on the sanction list, withold their F-16s, and declare Pakistan a supporter of terrorism. Which they are obviously, but again not necessarily overtly. Play this game for six months to a year and the US forces in Afghanistan will be relocating in a southerly direction.

SOC, I dont think I would have even bothered responded to such a post if it was not by you…a mod on this forum.

Pakistan has over 100,000 troops deployed on its border with Afghanistan? How many NATO/Afghan troops are currently based on Afghan side of the border?

Hundreds of Pakistani troops have died in battles against Taleban and their tribal supporters over the recent years? Hundreds of terrorists have been killed or arrested and handed over to US by Pakistan. Would you label that as overt or covert support of terrorism?

Terrosists are using suicide bomber against military facilities in Pakistan killing hundreds and causing muh damage in materials? Is that overt support or would you call it covert?

Despite of ever increasing Anti-American sentiment amongst Pakistani public, Pakistani establishment is still pursuing a very unpopular war in the region against terrorists/militants? Is that covert or overt support of terrorism by Pakistan?

Pakistan has always had deep insecurities about every Afghan govt’s stance about Durand line. How much pressure has US govt exerted on President Karzai with regard to that? Has US openly supported Pakistan’s stance on fencing that border, in spite of the fact that any such fencing would help to stop the inflow of terrorists?

While its easy for anyone to say this or that, please know that It is as much in Pakistani interests as in American for Pakistan to fight against these extremists in that region. However, Pakistani establishment has to be extremely wary of the local sensitivities and US (unfortunately) does not appear to give a damn about that. For the sake of argument lets suppose Taleban are enjoying 100% Pakistani support. Pakistan is a small country and US thus far has spent hundreds of billion in this war against terrorism (war in Iraq was a part of the wider WAT if you may recall). Yet if you believe US, Al-Qaeda still appears to have its hand in everything and is still as big a threat to western world as it was prior to 9/11. So the question is what have those hundreds of billions alongside the most advanced technology the world has ever seen have achived against terrorists and their supporter, i.e. Pakistan? Only valid conclusion is that there is something wrong with the present strategy used against these terrorists. Take a look at Iraq. It was not the surge (merely a few thousand troops) which brought the levels of violence of down in Iraq, rather USA’s active attempts to talk to moderate sunnis (Saddam’s people who had provided active support to the insurgents involved in the killing of thousands of US troops in Iraq). Only a similar approach in Afghanistan/Pakistan would yield the results in that region, not a trigger happy approach.

What I want to know is why they’d be this overtly belligerent. Yes, their territorial sovereignty should be respected. But aren’t there far more effective avenues they can pursue? Go to the UN with evidence that it was America. Or better yet, since that organization is totally incompetent, turn to China. With the US economy trying to go into the toilet, and probably succeeding, why not covertly inquire to China as to applying further economic pressure in return for access to information or technology stemming from Pakistan’s US ties?

How do we know that this is not happening…covertly i mean? OTOH, why would China want to get involved in such a mess when their primary concern is their economy. On another note, if US does not back off (elections or any other reason) this might prove to be enough to Push Pakistan more deeply into Chinese camp. Obviously that is something that US would not mind (in the long run at least) to strengthen ties with India even furthet – read using India to keep China in balance.

Anyway, good on Pakistan for actually deciding to try and defend itself and those under its protection. I just wonder what the end result will be, given that any potential issue can be made into a massive incident thanks to the elections in the USA and/or a new President wanting to make a statement: Obama to show he is strong on defense and the war against Islamic extremism, or McCain to show that he is not abandoning the GOP’s position regarding the same issues.

Having said the above, I dont think either US or Pakistani establishment is stupid enough to let things get out of hand. US has its own interests and uses different tactics to get more out of Pakistan. OTOH Pakistani establishment has to be wary of local sensitivities and hence such statement. I think both sides will continue to support each other keeping in mind their own interests. Having said this, it is these self interests that are probably more harmful to WAT (and hence no results in spite of hundreds of billions being poured into it) as they cause mutual distrust.

Everybody wants a new Cold War, Britain adopts Sharia law, Russian satanists are eating teenagers, and now this. Who would’ve thought things would get so interesting towards the end of this year? I certainly didn’t.

All I can say SOC, start reading a bit more on geostrategic issues and cultural difference (and not only defence, rockets, missile related stuff) and by the end of next year you might start to anticipate a bit more.:)

Attention moderator!
1.This thread does’nt belong here.
2.A verbal war is going to start in no time.