Parachute Harness

Hi everyone,

Firstly, a belated thanks for all the information since my last post, the delay in replying being due to a planned visit to The National Archives and a few other things en-route.

I looked at AP1182A while in the Archives so I now have a clearer picture of what I have.

I’m thinking of taking the harnesses (and the rest of my British wartime Flying Clothing collection to Newark’s indoor ‘boot on Saturday 14th. Any and all expressions of interest will be given careful consideration!

Hi Alan, the 2 chest harnesses you have are Observer types, they should normally be labelled or stamped across the cross straps at the back or the horizontal back strap. As for the stores reference numbers the harness itself should be 15A/137 and as you say the packs are 15A/141. The second harness you have is marked GQ I can see the ink stamps so there should be more on it somewhere, these harnesses were made by alot of companies the most common being Irvin, GQ and GT&L. These were used by RAF bomber crews mainly, from just before the war upto the 60s as used in Shackleton’s. The pack type C mk2 is a post war pack but of the same build as the wartime 15/141 packs. As for values I will happily send you a private message regarding the harnesses and packs separately should you wish! But you definitely have some valuable harnesses there! Hope that helps, regards Sam.

thanks Alan for the update.

Definitely interested in one or more

John

Once again, thanks for all the suggestions.

Here is the other chest type harness and the early pack. This harness appears to be almost identical to the other one according to my untrained eye?

I’m due a few days in The National Archives soon and I’ll add the appropriate A.P.s to my wish list. I should be able to report back with some positive ids.

The AVRO bit is just to say that it was owned by them and would be drawn from their flight equipment stores when appropriate to use on a flight in one of the company’s aircraft, surely?

Have you tried asking the Avro Heritage guys, Alan? They may not remember this stuff as it was before their time but they would know the system. They would be testing and delivering, for instance, Ansons to the MU’s and the like, and would need this kit.

Anon.

Hello Alan,
Long time no see M8. Interesting info here that seems to ring a very old bell from a long time ago. It’s the “AVRO” pack that is nudging the brain cells. It looks familiar and thinking back to my mob time in Aussie on 4 JSTU. (1962-65 ) The back (rear Crew members ) non ejection seats fitted into our Victor (XL-161 ) and Vulcan (XH-539) Trials Aircraft had these white looking Harnesses and Parachute packs installed. The Crew member sat on the parachute, but whether your pack pictured here is one of those , I’m not sure. It certainly looks the part. The AVRO marking is significant too, because AVRO’s were doing the Trials before we (RAF ) took over, but we worked along side these guys for the “Transit In” period, As we also did with The Handley Page teams.
AVRO’s then morphed into:- HAWKER SIDDELY DYNAMICS” about the time We (RAF ) took over (Late 1963 ). Our Unit was re-supplied from Woodford and place down SARF!!! that the name escapes me now. I think your harnesss and pack comes from the AVRO / Woodford Blue Steel trials period. Might even have come out of our Victor or Vulcan on return to UK, so packs would have been dumped or stored as Aircraft were re- big time serviced and re-modded for the now role changes taking place. That makes it a rare interesting beastie now (If I am correct.)

Also during early 1965, we were advised of a modification to Victors and Vulcans that was to install new swivelling type rear crew members seats. ( Turned seat around and “Booted” crew member across cabin floor). The big cancellations of early 1965 knackered everything, (as we all know ) and this Mod was just forgotten about.

Alan, —-do you know how this pack attaches to parachute , (in all respects ) ? And what is the ink stamp on this parachute pack saying (or referring to ) ?

Also, if this Pack is possibly an “Observers” one, then it might not be early V Bomber, cos I don’t remember V Bomber rear crews having these stored in cabin and having to clip them on. Also (again hope I’m not boring you) I cannot remember where the PSP was fitted, I think it might have been attached on front bottom of seat. ( Maybe –possibly ) Maybe someone else will have sharper memory than about this then I do. However, the fact that harness and Pack came as a unit and is marked AVRO hints at V Bomber connections.

I’ll have to go and collapse into a smouldering heap now, as aforementioned brain cells are becoming overloaded–:confused: —– It was over 55 yrs ago after all. Hope this helps with the confusion. lol !!!

Bill T.

ps:- Just noticed that your harness has:- HP marked on it That has to be HANDLEY PAGE, so that fits the picture as well, because the seat Bay out at 4JSTU would service stuff and re-issue as each aircraft reqd. IE, Vulcan bits would be fitted to Victor and vice versa to meet Trials timing demands for Aircraft servicibility.

pps:- Whats the “interesting Story” that goes with these 2 items Alan, or is that not for public consumption –lol !!! :very_drunk:

Here is the “AVRO” harness and chute pack. They came to me as an item, and said to be ex-Woodford, which makes sense of course.

The chute pack has an ink stamp from 1964 on it but what this refers to is uncertain?

Thanks for the replies so far!

I’m having a bad day with everything to do with technology – camera, laptop, internet connection, you name it.

Here’s my best attempts at photographs – I’ll have another bash tomorrow.

This is the “X” type. Obviously no parachute and a few details missing?

I’ll try to upload a few more later.

PM sent regarding the XType and one of the Observer packs.

Rich

The Stores refs for wartime X types that I have are 15A/429 for a Khaki canopy, 15A/521 for a white training canopy and 15A/597 for an operational white canopy.
The X Type harness on its own (as a spare for the complete assemblies) was 15A/358.
As for cost for 15A/429 Irvins would invoice you £57-17-10d for one. The harness alone 15A/358 was £5-18-6d.
The C Mk2 could possibly be a 28ft canopy used on the CLE containers (15D/206).
Does the X type have provision for a chest mounted reserve? If it does its post 1956 or a very rare wartime trials rig.

Is the X type white or brown webbing Alan? If it’s the wartime white then I think you might be pleasantly surprised at the value.

Dependent on cost the 15A/141 and / or lookalikes sounds interesting

John

I’m pretty sure at least one harness is a wartime observer’s type, John.

Looking at one of the assemblies, it might be a British Army “X” Type, used by paratroopers? The harness is marked I.A.C. Harness Pack, Outer, Mk. 2, Type X, Stores Ref. 15A/503.

There are two chest type harnesses but I cannot trace a Stores Ref. on them.

I have three ‘chute packs, all outwardly similar. One states Parachute, Observer Ref. 15A/141, another has no Stores Ref. but is ink-stamped “AVRO” and has a 1960’s date on it (and an interesting story to go with it), the other reads Pack, Type C, Mk. 2 and I assume it is also post-war?

Can’t help you with identification Alan, but if you’ve got an Observers type (chest) going spare we’d be interested

John