Pathe footage…allies shooting up B17s?!

Well the aircraft in the gun-camera footage clearly wasn?t an Me 410 (from the comfort and safety of my armchair :rolleyes:).

As you say, a tragic incident, but blue-on-blue was probably more common than we think during WW2.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/messme410.html

Me410 silhouettes, the Mosquito’s Merlins are much sleeker. Different wing profile as well I think. Mosquito’s fin was bigger

Mhuxt, I’d already marked the Potez-CAMS 141 as a possibility as it seems to tick most of the boxes. Volume 5 of Warplanes of the Second World War says the sole prototype was scrapped in late 1943. Based at Dakar, it sunk a U-boat in June that year, which raises the question as to how it ended up in the Baltic in 1944 apparently in German hands. Seems that 11 were in fact ordered but none of the production machines completed: maybe this was one of the unflown “incomplete” aircaft?

Edit: Just looking at Longshot’s pictures and cross-referring to Warplanes etc vol 5, I realise I was referring to the 141, top right in Longshot’s trio of pictures. The plane under fire appears to be the 161, not included in William Green’s book presumably because of its civilian origin. I think we’ve cracked it, thanks folks.

Mystery Flying Boat in combat footage

Looks like the Potez CAMS161 ,( bottom right photo) (top right is 141?)

Was that the correct date/ I can’t get the clip to re-load now. There was another incident on the 2nd of October. Thunderbolt pilots claimed a “Mosquito in German markings” – another 140 Sqn Mossie.

VIII Fighter Command
Combat Film No. 18991
2/Lt. R.E. Lewis 335 SQDN
6 Oct 1944 4 F.G.

Edit: Beaten to the draw.

Definitely looks like a Mossie 🙁

Thanks.

The whole thing is just sad. So far as I can see, “Friendly Fire” was high on the list of reasons for Mosquito losses. Accidents, flak, then either Fw 190s or friendly fire, I think within one or two aircraft. There’s another couple I’m looking at which may well add to the ff total.

Was that the correct date/ I can’t get the clip to re-load now.

Yes, the date ties-in perfectly.

The full details from the two clips state:

VIII Fighter Command
Combat Film Number 18990
1/LT E.N.McCall
335 Squadron 4 F.G.
6 October 1944

VIII Fighter Command
Combat Film Number 18991
2/LT R.E.Lewis
335 Squadron 4 F.G.
6 October 1944

A big captured French flying boat was sunk by P-51s in the Baltic – Potez-CAMS 161.

Some sources say it was sunk on Lake Constance along with one of the SE 200s and a Latecoere 631, however I believe that is an error.

I think the big Bv replacement for the 222 (was it the 338?) had a single tail.

The B-17 looks like the same aircraft in each case. Perhaps recently downed and then well and truly shot to pieces.
I’m more puzzled by the big twin-finned aircraft part-sunk in shallow water towards the end. I can’t get it to match any German type of flying boat.
High wing, bit of dihedral on the tailplane…frankly I’m puzzled. There’s too much spray around to count the engines, but the best I can come up with is Coronado, Mariner or Martin Mars, all of which seem pretty unlikely in north Europe, especially the Mars. I’m pretty sure it’s not a Do-24 as the fin shape is wrong and the fuselage looks too bulky. Even if it’s a ditched landplane, i can’t get it.
There is a smaller flying boat towards the end which I think is a Do-26.
Thoughts, anyone?

Was that the correct date/ I can’t get the clip to re-load now. There was another incident on the 2nd of October. Thunderbolt pilots claimed a “Mosquito in German markings” – another 140 Sqn Mossie.

Well the aircraft in the gun-camera footage clearly wasn’t an Me 410 (from the comfort and safety of my armchair :rolleyes:).

As you say, a tragic incident, but blue-on-blue was probably more common than we think during WW2.

No doubt about the B-17 but wasn’t that twin-engined aircraft being shot-down at 3:35 a Mosquito? :confused:

Sadly, I’d say yes. NS522, a 140 Squadron machine, is described in Shores & Thomas’ “2nd Tactical Air Force” books as having been shot down on 6 October 1944 by P-51s of the 4th FG, who claimed an Me 410 near Helgoland.

The crew of F/L A.E. Palmer and F/S D. Gardner were both killed.

The Bundesarchiv has tons of the stuff, and most of it fell into Allied hands at the end of the war.

There is plenty on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klXwCJTO3CM&feature=related

Interesting footage, one thing, where would you go to get German Gun Cam footage?

It’s probably just an amalgam of Allied and Axix CG footage edited together.

Possibly, but this footage still seems to have the original ‘credits’ identifying the pilot, squadron and date it was taken…

…I’ve rarely seen that left on…..when edited for a documentary, for example.

CG Footage

It’s probably just an amalgam of Allied and Axix CG footage edited together.

There’s only a limited amount of the stuff and they don’t expect most folk viewing it to know what types they are looking at.

I was watching a doc on the war in the Far East recently and this had footage from the BoB spliced into the CG shots.

Anon.

I wonder if the fighter pilots became aces by shooting up their own side?

No doubt about the B-17 but wasn’t that twin-engined aircraft being shot-down at 3:35 a Mosquito? :confused:

Fortresses force landed by their crews and subsequently shot up by US fighters to prevent them from being salvaged by the Germans?

They appear to be in open country rather than on an airfield which would fit this theory.

I wonder if the fighter pilots became aces by shooting up their own side? 🙂

I think you right with the abandoned in enemy territory theory, it does seem to be in the middle of nowhere yet very intact. Nice rare shots of the Me163.