Pearl Harbor

Yes Mike J,

That is part of my comment. We’re on the same side !

America didn’t need battleships it needed aircraft carriers.

Surely it was the other way around, that the future course of the war in the Pacific was dictated by the fact that the Americans had carriers and no battleships after Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbor was a borderline tactical victory for the Japanese – nothing more. They achieved very little. America didn’t need battleships it needed aircraft carriers.

The strategic move that precipitated the Pacific War was the American oil embargo about eighteen months before the Pearl Harbor strike. This event alone changed the course of history leading to consequences that, at the time, were almost incalculable.

Hi
a lot of the theories i read seem to be based on the american navy sending its carriers out of pearl before the attack, suggesting the US new of the pending attack and saved its important vessels
but i think there will always be suggestions of prior knowledge, on everything.
cheers
Jerry

ok thanks, I do think he was the only person to lead and win us the war, but he had a sort of attitude ie backing the bombing campaign, then distancing himself from it when the war was won. He had a part in how the Poles were treated post war, so personally I do think he was capable of doing it, if it was in Gt. Britains interest.

This all grew out of book and then a film based on a theory published by an ex-CIA man – Ron Helgeno I think it was, that Churchill had evidence from Japanese sources. But none of the “evidence” stood up and the story joined the list of conspiracy theories developed on number of events of the past 60 years or do.

Jack -there is more likelyhood of British intercepts of Japanese military transmissions being relayed to the U.S . I very much doubt that Churchill would have withheld any information on a proposed attack.

Good post, and an interesting new light on the day.

Moggy

One of the forums I visit, is the Garage Journal, where I found this;http://open.salon.com/blog/matt_paust/2011/12/07/it_took_three_trapped_men_16_days_to_die_at_pearl_harbor

Ron

I did indeed watch Tora! Tora! Tora!, as I do on or around every December 7th each year. (I also watch a Battle of Britain-related film on or around the 15th of September. This year it was First Light.)

I know its a poor way to describe it, but it was a Gods send to us in this country, was there some talk that Churchill knew of the attack, but did not reveal it.

but thoughts are with them, as of most days when memories are recalled of those days…

I think Daz did mention watching Tora Tora Tora.

It was certainly a day that changed history, though there is little new to say about it.

But yes, we should, even at this distance in time, have a passing thought for those killed and their families. A handful in the scale of the conflict, but each one a personal tragedy.

Moggy

It did surprise me Moggy that no one mentioned it on here of all places.

A good thought in which I am delighted to join you.

I did see a post from an American in a Facebook group, wishing those who read it “A happy Pearl Harbor day”

I suppose at least it’s not forgotten.

Moggy

Well actually I like the film , yeah I know its got that Hollywood factor in it – ie script , incredulous flying , altered Historical facts .It does get across just how big a loss PH was and how America suffered . Main Message is
” Remember Pearl Harbor ”

Oh – I loved the Soundtrack , also Kate is a bit of allright !

Ron

Actually, one of the reasons I SO dislike this film is that I think it cheapens the memory of those people by turning their suffering into a, well, B movie. They deserved better than this film even aspired to, let alone what it actually managed. It was pure garbage.

Kate was nice though but I hav egone off her now she has spurned me and got married.

I suppose I’ll have to carry on slumming it with Kylie.

Melvyn

Brave man, go4b17 😉

Mind you, I liked it a wee bit, and that wee bit was the bit with the Spitfires in it! 😀

Pearl Harbor

Well actually I like the film , yeah I know its got that Hollywood factor in it – ie script , incredulous flying , altered Historical facts .It does get across just how big a loss PH was and how America suffered . Main Message is
” Remember Pearl Harbor “

Oh – I loved the Soundtrack , also Kate is a bit of allright !

Ron

Ah yeah but there was one vital ingredient missing from ‘Tora Tora Tora’…the LOVE TRIANGLE! 😉

But there was! I loved the ‘Zeros’, the ‘Vals’ and the P-40s! :p

As the guy that started this thread I think I shold also say there was never any intention to start a “them and us” argument with our transatlantic cousins over who can be more historically accurate. It is also a fact that films HAVE to be made for an audience. Have you ever wondered why you never see blockbuster documentaries? There just is NO market for them. I am sure if you were to check audience figures for the shopping channel against the Hitler, sorry, I mean History, channel you would see HC way down.

ALL flims have a fictional content, be it melodramaticizing the death of Guy Gibson’s dog, through some of the dialogure in Battle of Britain to thoe whole story in 633 squadron but above all of that is the simple fact that be it American or even if it were British, Pearl Harbor SUCKED BIGTIME!

Tora Tora Tora is good but even that has flaws, it certainly had critics at the time that thought the “political correctness” of the Japanese side of the story was overplayed’ but that is neither here nor there. It didn’t make me laugh. PH did, incredulously.

I did like the comment from one US critic who called PH “Turkey Turkey Turkey”!

I did mention near the start that I knew a couple of people that were involved. John La Noue who built the Vimy replica, was a special effects guy on the film. He was responsible for the B25 crash which, for me, was easily the least crap effect in the film. This is because it was done with a model. Even then, he would not have been responsible for editing the film onto the screen. Pleased to say John (who is a good guy) did a good job.

However, my original point remains, if those little brats at the start had actually managed to kill themselves in that Stearman (as indeed they should have) we would have been saved hours of torture!

Melvyn Hiscock

To be honest, this particular ‘Yank’ is getting a bit tired of some of the commentary about ‘us’ and the films on the forum. “we’ aren’t Hollywood, and lets face it, you can find lousy ‘historical’ films all over.

You are right Dan. We can get a bit sloppy and use ‘Yanks’ and ‘Americans’ as the shorthand for the prats in Hollywood.

I’m sure we’ll all try and stop ourselves from doing that, but I bet we’ll slip. So apologies in arrears and in advance. Generally speaking we are well disposed to Americans en masse, welcome them as friends individually, but loathe the commercial excess.

Your big mistake was that thing in Boston with the tea. 😉

Moggy