Pembroke for sale

Well done to the buyer and even better that airworthy is the aim. Transports had been overlooked in flying preservation for many years and in recent times there has been a late revival in fortunes for those that have survived.

My log recalls several days in 1973 at Valley when movements included Basset, Andover, Pembroke and Devon. In fact to some there were interchangeable. Asssistant upstairs in the tower phoned the switchboard to say the Basset had landed, I looked out of the window a few minutes later to see a Pembroke taxy past.

I can assure you that the aircraft has been purchased to keep it flying. the aircraft will be flown to its new destination very soon and join the other two aircraft the owner already has. As PK has been maintaining the aircraft for some time he has agreed to assist in keeping the aircraft airworthy. Yes Avgas is expensive but if you shop around it is cheaper to fly the aircraft to different places and pick up enough to carry out a few flights and as everyone knows there is the airshows to go to that will give fuel as part of the price. The intention is to carry on flying the aircraft to be displayed on the circuit.

Thats rally good to hear, the Pembroke being a particular piston powered favourite of mine from an era where many of the other RAF contemporary types only survive as static exhibits in museums, Anson, Twin Pin, Devon accepted. It must be a real challange to maintain a relatively complex and orphaned aircraft where the airframe, and engine builder no longer exists.

Richard

Pembroke

I can assure you that the aircraft has been purchased to keep it flying. the aircraft will be flown to its new destination very soon and join the other two aircraft the owner already has. As PK has been maintaining the aircraft for some time he has agreed to assist in keeping the aircraft airworthy. Yes Avgas is expensive but if you shop around it is cheaper to fly the aircraft to different places and pick up enough to carry out a few flights and as everyone knows there is the airshows to go to that will give fuel as part of the price. The intention is to carry on flying the aircraft to be displayed on the circuit.

Hydraulic damage

YB The Provost failure report actually states that the pin failure ‘most likely’ was caused by a crack that was originally initiated by Hydralic action in the cylinder.
The corrosion issue on its own would not have caused cylinder detachment.
The lower cylinders of a radial are quite frequently ‘stressed’ to a greater degree than the upper ones as even a small quantity of oil present will increase the load well above the norm.
Over its life (and many starts) these cylinders will have been subject to an extra fatigue factor that should be borne in mind during normal maintenence. The Leonides is a high power to weight ratio engine but needs the same ‘pre start’ treatment as any other radial, clouds of smoke during start up may look very spectacular, but just have a thought for the ‘loads’ being created whilst this is going on.

I too am delighted that this Pembroke has been saved, and is is now in the hands of an empathic owner who intends to maintain and fly her regularly.

If I could respectfully refer to the Leonides failure involved in John Faireys tragic accident,
…
The cause of that failure was ” gudgeon pin failure, due to corrosion pitting induced fatigue, possibly exacerbated by infrequent utilisation, resulting in cylinder detachment, and resulting fire..”

It was also noted that although the engine was within its 800hr overhaul life (at 640hrs),
it hadn’t been overhauled for forty-five years (since 1964).

In RAF and RN service days internal corrosion in high cycle use engines would have been a rare (or non)issue, as opposed to infrequent use by a private owner these days.

Not being negativehere , just mechanically realistic I think.

Pembroke casevac

I like the scenario of the Pembroke doing a casevac (gently chuffing away) and trust the patient was unaware that he was being consigned into what was even then a vintage aircraft.
Imagine the vitim of a RTA being picked up by a horse drawn ambulance,and then a wheel falling off.

In a way I agree, I used to work on a twin with a Cont flat 6 that had a couple of cylinders go (crack) they were changed, but bearing in mind who was the owner, and with concerns from the pilot, I pointed out that although the hours were mid life it had done 18 plus years so was getting on. They were both changed at over 50k a pop.

But as long as it has been maintained, checked and inspected, I would not envisage any problems, agree about the lack of experience and it will only get worse, my radial is limited, done courses on them etc but tended to avoid them if I could, though my CAA licence covers all piston engines, I would be a fool to sign out anything I was unsure of. I think the new owner is very lucky, and hats off to them, long may they and the rest of us get pleasure from seeing her perform.

You do get the odd thing thrown up, a couple of years ago I was doing a nose tyre change and noticed the tube ( Dunlop England ) was manufactured in 1975!.. Was still fully Servicable but I decided 40 years on a tube was sufficent, so I retired it LOL..
Remember there are WW1 aircraft and a plethora of WW2 stuff still flying about on old engines but the Piston Provost crash sadly showed how things could go on older engines.

Engine extentions

TT I think the fact that more aircraft will be on ‘extensions’ (down to the engineer not the CAA) will be a big problem in future years.
The Leonides is a far more complex engine than a flat 4 or 6 as it is s-charged,geared,and has an injection carburetor with associated ‘capsules’.
When you add on the (radial) potential for a cylinder/rod to get hydraulic damage on start then how does an engineer satisfy himself that all is well with an old unit without a detailed inspection, (and how far can that go).
The simple fact is there is no real incentive for a licenced engineer to do this due to the potential legal issues if a unit fails or indeed a system component goes down.
This of course leads us to the other issue of where the experienced licenced engineers will be coming from to provide this service!!!

Freebird
Please check your pm`s

G-ANPK

Yup, did my taxing training at St Athans on my mechs course with one, we then all bailed into it whilst others did theirs… Many years later was doing an engine change on a jag at Gut and one was next to us, it came in for a casevac, got airborne, threw a cylinder coating all of one side with oil so came back, one guy on the wing asked the other to throw up a GS screwdriver and it went straight into the open oil tank, took them most of the day to get it out.

Personally I think Pembrokes (& the whole Prince family) are handsome beasts on the ground or in the air, the ad states that a maximun of four pax can be carried.

Rich, thanks for the Coventry info.

Pembroke

It’s good to hear that it has been bought. I hope the new owner can afford to put it back in the air and keep it there, at least for a few years.

The Pembroke’s a bit of an ugly duck on the ground, what with its big nose and what appears to be an overly large fuselage.

However, once in the air a transformation takes place. It is a very attractive aeroplane and everything appears to drop into proportion. It lends truth to the statement that aeroplanes belong in the air:)

Will it be able to carry pax, or is this the subject of a further paperwork exercise?

I hope it goes on the show circuit and I look forward to seeing (and hearing) it some time.

Anon.

Pagen- We are talking about engines where the last overhauls for service use would have been carried out in the 1980’s . Therefore a lot of spare parts have probably gone out of circulation and the expertise on them is decidedly on the wane. As a rough guideline -a Gipsy 10-2 overhaul might cost 25K plus for a simple inline four engine . How increase the hours due to more parts and a Leonides must be 30K plus for overhaul.

Not a massive amount of money in the bigger scheme of things but examine how much a Pembroke/Sea Prince burns an hour and weigh that against how much income either type can earn and its an expensive hobby.

Gents

At the end of the day, we should be pleased that there are guys out there who are willing to finance such project, otherwise we would have very little to watch when we attend air shows.

Plus knowing the new owner as I do, I know he is keen to show off his new aircraft to the public, but its just a matter if the air show organisers want to book the aircraft now.

Freebird

I’m still struggling with the concept of the Leonides for the Sea Prince being that difficult an engine to source or rebuild by certified engine companies, even if it won’t be be cheap or straightforward.

What’s the status of XL594 at Coventry these days?

I haven’t seen XL594 for a while, as she’s in the maintenance hangar. Last I saw she was being put back together.

CFS had just rebuilt a Leonides last time I visted them, I believe they had been working on several engines as a result of the Piston Provost crash and the mandatory checks.

Good luck to whoever bought WV740, hope we see it in the skies soon.

The CAA permit may well not be a problem, but as the engines will be ‘on codition’ and need someone to sign off another extension i suspect this is the ‘achilles heel’ nowadays due to the potential legal issues of a ‘comeback’.

Even by todays standards the Pembroke/Sea prince is a complex machine with an abundandance of old systems and plenty of fuel and Hyd lines with associated pumps,and limited fire protection.

When this machine was in service for training, i suspect parachutes would have been part of the inventory, therefore it is easy to see why future ‘sign offs’ are going to be expensive for an aircraft that has limited value.

Don’t forget it is 12 years plus extension, but I don’t think that would be a problem, half on the UK’s private fleet will probably be operating ” on condition” what I think is someone has got a very nice plane with a spares package at an unbelievable price, one hopes she will grace the skies for many more years and one wishes the new owner a heartfelt congratulations, one just prays she stays in the UK’s skies.

Pagen,

Haven’t you realised that people on aviation forums ALWAYS know more than the owner of the aeroplane does???:D

I don’t think I’ve read such strangely negative points about someone elses historic aircraft purchase!
It could be that the seller was in a position where he had to sell his aircraft, and that someone genuinely interested in keeping, and being able to keep, this fantastic old type flying for us to enjoy has brought it.

I’m still struggling with the concept of the Leonides for the Sea Prince being that difficult an engine to source or rebuild by certified engine companies, even if it won’t be be cheap or straightforward.

What’s the status of XL594 at Coventry these days?

Whats to say buyer did not do both before bidding?

Nothing, so why all the speculation from people who know jack as to whats wrong with it?:D

Whats to say buyer did not do both before bidding?

Paul