Percival Gull G-ADPR

The P51 at the AAM Duxford is a replica. The one in Milestones at Hendon is real. 🙁
mmitch.

Many thanks to ‘TangoCharlie’

Regards

Simonr;- I walked under that P51 a couple of weeks ago and presumed it to be a GRP replica….. Is it real?

Hey there – Not sure, I’ve always presumed the same as you (that it’s GRP) – I wasn’t having a go at Duxford, the point I was trying to make was that it’s good that the a/c hasn’t been adapted for display and ruined in the process…

Cheers 🙂

Real..?

Simonr;- I walked under that P51 a couple of weeks ago and presumed it to be a GRP replica….. Is it real?

It strikes me (from reading this entire thread) that the positives of this situation are that although it’s no longer flying in the UK, at least it’s hanging up away from danger in a heated and relatively stable atmosphere, where one day it can be taken down and returned to the air, where it should be.

Surely better that than it being kept outside or crashing / suffering damage or deterioration in some other way.

It’s also nice that they’ve not done this to it:

That has already been done about a year ago, and has been mentioned several times and documented by Peter already in this thread.

Aaaah, so it has. Been awhile since I’ve been there.:o Must go get a picture when I’m in AKL next. Want to go look in the new hangar at MoTAT too…

Cockpit shots – I have digital of Guy’s ‘Gull’ DPP and print of ADPR from the Old Warden flightline somewhere.

Photos.

Digressing slightly;- Does anyone here know where there are some good,clear shots of the cockpits of any of the antipodean Gulls such as ‘PR’s…?

I’ve heard that ‘DPR is being moved from above the duty free area to, more appropriately out in the terminal where it will be seen by all visitors to the international airport.:)

That has already been done about a year ago, and has been mentioned several times and documented by Peter already in this thread.

Regards,

I’ve heard that ‘DPR is being moved from above the duty free area to, more appropriately out in the terminal where it will be seen by all visitors to the international airport.:)

You cannot expect the real reasons why an organisation like Shuttleworth might act in a particular manner to become public knowledge. Often the truth is obscured by rumour and heresay, although dwindling finances is almost always why an organisation sells its assets.

The LVG going to Hendon is a classic case in point, on the subject of rumour and heresay.

It’s just a shame – for me – that you and those aeroplanes are half a world away!

Thats OK WJ244,no offence whatsoever.If any of you enthusiast are in Auckland at any time give me a call on 094263735 or mobile 0274775475. We are always at the hangar (7 days a week) and would like to show you around and go flying.(Tiger, Fox, Dragon, Moth Minor, Auster, L4 Cub, Proctor etc

Interesting thread, with much good info, and I agree with most of it.

…and the aircraft is now to be seen and enjoyed by thousands each day.

I’ve passed through Auckland a fair amount over recent years, and I don’t think I saw a single other person stop and look at Jean’s aircraft when it was in the departure area or now over the public concourse. I got more (funny) looks for photographing something in the airport, than what I was photographing got. The arriving rellies and coffee shops were of vastly greater interest. The in-curiosity of the majority of people is, IMHO, sad.

It certainly was far from interest for the vast majority of those passing through, which is a great pity, considering how historic the aircraft is, particularly in New Zealand. I’m not particularly obtuse, having found some pretty hidden aircraft over the years, but I couldn’t find the public access to ADPR when she was over the shops (I was travelling international, so passed through that area instead) and I never found the engine or displays mentioned by Peter. That’s because there are no signs to them, and they aren’t obvious. My loss, poor effort by Auckland Airport.

When we passed through earlier this year, the Jean Batten memorial sculpture seemed to have been (temporarily) removed as well.

I’m pleased to have seen the Gull flying as well as hung, though.

All that said, as an airport, Auckland does a good job.

Regards,

Batten 75th Anniversary

In light of the recent debate about DPR and her sale I thought it relevant to post pictures of the Proctor 1/Vega Gull look alike flying down under. This beautiful machine was rebuilt a few years ago and modified from standard Proctor to appear more like the earlier Vega’s. Note the Vega style windshield, larger rear cabin windows and cleaned up wing leading edge, no oil cooler!. Sunday October 16th, 2011 was the 75th anniversary of Jean Batten’s arrival at Mangere at 5 pm after her record breaking flight between England and New Zealand in 1936. A flypast by vintage aircraft in her honour was made that afternoon along the Auckland waterfront from Musick point to Te Atatu, passing North of the Viaduct Basin.

The idea was to have a Percival monoplane (this one) and similar to Jean’s Gull lead four vintage aircraft of that era, Tiger Moth, Fox Moth, Moth Minor and Miles Messenger along the route. On the advice of CAA, they restricted the number of aircraft to four, so that it did not become an aeronautical event that had to be Notamed. Other classic aircraft were welcome to fly behind the small air fleet.
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Stan. I am sorry if I caused any offence – it certainly wasn’t intended. What I was trying to say was that at the time DPR was flown in NZ there were most likely few people in that local area of NZ with the knowledge and expertise both to solve the rough running problem and to reassure the owners that it was something quite commonplace. Having come across BTH magnetos on motorcycles I am well aware that they can be tempremental for no apparent reason.
The internet would, at best, have been in its infancy then and it was harder for enthusiasts to be aware of eachs others interests and to exchange information and expertise in those days.
Thanks to this forum we managed to raise the money and find the people with the time and expertise to save, move and preserve a HS748 – something which would have been all but impossible in those pre-internet days. I am also pretty sure that some of the gliders saved by forum members would have met their end on bonfire night in the days before the internet simply because the network for communication didn’t exist so many “projects” got destroyed before potential saviours were even aware of their existence.
I am sure that the owners of DPR had the best interests of the aeroplane at heart when they decided that they wouldn’t make further flights but for me she is still much missed from the Shuttleworth flightline even though I appreciate that the alternatives for raising money to keep Old Warden afloat were very limited at the time of her sale.

It seems to me that everything has been answered in a polite measured way.

Anyone who has a family to feed knows that at times some of the family treasure has to be sold to keep the cash available. When cashflow improves you can choose to go back to the marketplace and add to your collection again.

And what is often overlooked is that an airframe which is static can be restored to fly when circumstances change. This is easier of course when the static example has been preserved internally intact.

And I have enjoyed all the extra info on Percivals .

Thanks to G-ADPK for the pickies of APH. Yes she is still alive and kicking. The fabric that was applied by Frank Brittain has at last passed its best use by date so one of this summer’s jobs will be to give Gertie (Franks name for her) a new dress. She will be finished in the same Percival cream and aqua scheme she has always worn.
I must take issue with WJ244 and his comments in Jan this year. Rest assured we have as much if not more expertise with wood and fabric aircraft and DH /Blackburn engines as anywhere in the world.The rough running was caused by one of the magnetos getting a bit upset. Nothing new with BTH’s best. I have been dealing with them for the last 57 odd years of my engineering career and currently have three on the workbench.Given the value of the Gull it was the best thing to do in getting her back down on the ground.
The old thorny question of to fly or not has plagued us for years. Witness a certain Mosquito,at the time the last flyer (Kermits aside) and now no longer with us. DPR was sold at the right price at the right time. Shuttleworth is still going and the aircraft is now to be seen and enjoyed by thousands each day.

To me, it seems that a not inconsiderable number of questions have been asked, vis a vis the sale of G-ADPR and the Trust’s collecting policy, which have not been matched by the number of responses. Notably absent have been responses from the powers that be at Old Warden. But then, that should not surprise me. If my understanding is correct, it is a private trust which is answerable to no-one but its trustees. And as such, if they wish to remain silent, that is their prerogative. I respect that, even if I do not quite understand or accept that.

Two pictures of ZK-ARP taken at Dairy Flat when I visited in 2009 and was kindly shown around by Stan Smith. The aircraft still carries its original ownership plate on the inside of the port door showing G-AIEO, R.K Dundas, 4St James Street, London, SW1 on it.

At the time of my visit the aircraft has been slightly damaged on its horizontal stabiliser and so was not airworthy.

G-APDK

Well I’m a volunteer at The Shuttleworth Collection. These days I tend to restrict myself to playing with old motorbikes, but previously I did sit on the SVAS committee for nearly six years, and I’ve been around there a few years one way and another (actually I’ve been attending for forty years–I was eight in 1970).
The Gull was sold because back in the day money was hemorrhaging away at an alarming rate. Exhibits had to be sold just to keep the place from closing and much (not just aeroplanes–the collection has many very valuable vehicles) was lost.
THT has, by being fairly hard nosed, secured the financial future of the place in our lifetime. I don’t (and certainly didn’t) always agree with his MO when it came to things, but I can’t argue with the fact that the place will be there long after I’ve had my half day out with the undertaker. Something that was not a certainty back in the early 1990’s.
Maybe a little rustic charm has been lost, but so has the ludicrous members enclosure and a large amount of the old us & them attitude. Things at Old Warden will, always I think trail behind the real World by a number of years, but looking around me at the rest of 2011 (which I think is largely sh*t), I’m not too unhappy about that.

Andy