petrol prices

Just to clear up the tax / duty thing here are some figures I did for another thread:

Petrol costs on average £1.049 per litre.

Fuel duty is (before the £0.02 increase in April 2008) about £0.50 per litre and VAT at 17.5% is paid on both the fuel and the duty.

So removing all VAT and duty would make petrol cost about £0.39 per litre.

A barrel (159 litres) of crude oil costs today about £46 ($91 but it has been as high as $100 recently) so that would make the ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol about £0.29 per litre.

Leaving just £0.10 per litre to cover all exploration, extraction, refining, transportation and profit for the oil company and the retailer.

So even if the oil companies and retailers made no profit and the petrol magically appeared in the pumps…

…your petrol would still cost £0.93 per litre!

Also only about 50% of the barrel of crude can be made into petrol (the rest isn’t wasted but it can’t be made into petrol) so the actual ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol is more like £0.55 per litre…

…which means that the oil companies make a loss on petrol. :confused:

The figures are a couple of months out of date but you get the idea.

The government could easily reduce the price of fuel for all motorists but the treasury would need to raise that money from us somehow. At least a duty on road fuel reflects the damage to the environment caused by cars and helps promote fuel economy in vehicle design.

Of course the government could do that but they would not need to raise the money any other way as apart from Italy we have the most expensive road fuel in the EU and are one of the few countries where the road tax is not in the price of the petrol/diesel. If you think about it that a much fairer way of doing it, as those who drive the most miles/use the most fuel pay more in road tax. Most of the hight cost is because we have to fund somany useless, underworked, overpaid politicians. Think about it this country has more politicians than the whole USA.

Just to clear up the tax / duty thing here are some figures I did for another thread:

Petrol costs on average £1.049 per litre.

Fuel duty is (before the £0.02 increase in April 2008) about £0.50 per litre and VAT at 17.5% is paid on both the fuel and the duty.

So removing all VAT and duty would make petrol cost about £0.39 per litre.

A barrel (159 litres) of crude oil costs today about £46 ($91 but it has been as high as $100 recently) so that would make the ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol about £0.29 per litre.

Leaving just £0.10 per litre to cover all exploration, extraction, refining, transportation and profit for the oil company and the retailer.

So even if the oil companies and retailers made no profit and the petrol magically appeared in the pumps…

…your petrol would still cost £0.93 per litre!

Also only about 50% of the barrel of crude can be made into petrol (the rest isn’t wasted but it can’t be made into petrol) so the actual ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol is more like £0.55 per litre…

…which means that the oil companies make a loss on petrol. :confused:

The figures are a couple of months out of date but you get the idea.

The government could easily reduce the price of fuel for all motorists but the treasury would need to raise that money from us somehow. At least a duty on road fuel reflects the damage to the environment caused by cars and helps promote fuel economy in vehicle design.

Of course the government could do that but they would not need to raise the money any other way as apart from Italy we have the most expensive road fuel in the EU and are one of the few countries where the road tax is not in the price of the petrol/diesel. If you think about it that a much fairer way of doing it, as those who drive the most miles/use the most fuel pay more in road tax.

If you want parity, then you need a converged set of currencies aiming to balance the Euro.

IIRC, Article 2 (Yes two) of the Treaty of Rome requires the EEC to have a Common Currency. You join the EEC, you accept the currency ideal IMO.
We ran away from that (Or rather Lamont lost all nerve) when we left the convergence process.
We are in Europe, but insist that we don’t sign up to the difficult bits, but still demand the right to assume we have a say. Armchair referee is the best analogy here.
We should have gone Euro at least a decade ago, but I fear that the corruption in the City pressured the politicians into not doing so. After all, the FX markets would have little to do, and that means lost money in the city which means brown envelopes are delivered to Westminster to ensure the (in)correct decisions are made.
It’s no use harbouring a love for the pound, all the other nations also loved their own currency but were prepared to converge towards a greater goal.

However, a common tax and duty regime is also needed to balance fuel/booze/fags. This can only happen after a common currency used AND we have purchasing power parity too.

i believe petrol is cheaper in european countries (i may be wrong) if this is the case (and we are in the EEU )why arent we paying the same price ?,its either parrity or we should get out and away from this Euro trap(or crap) we,ve fallen in to before it drowns us all.

A bit late! a sinking ship and all that.

Oh yes go down that road! that will rattle a few cages.:D

i believe petrol is cheaper in european countries (i may be wrong) if this is the case (and we are in the EEU )why arent we paying the same price ?,its either parrity or we should get out and away from this Euro trap(or crap) we,ve fallen in to before it drowns us all.

At least the UK pays more into the EU than it takes out…..but let’s not get into that here! 😀

Oh yes go down that road! that will rattle a few cages.:D

Aah, but sir, you are confusing “Raising” with need.

That money is raised for Government purposes, we’d foolishly like to think that Road tax/Fuel duty & VAT would be spent on the actual roads.

Trust me…..I’m under no such illusions! 😀

Try this thread, forget that it starts being about speed cameras, in the end it all comes down to money.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=75274

Your outback roads (Scotland and parts of Northern England, Wales, NI) are paid for by the EU… 😀

At least the UK pays more into the EU than it takes out…..but let’s not get into that here! 😀

Yeah, road taxes aren’t used for road maintenance in Britain. Your outback roads (Scotland and parts of Northern England, Wales, NI) are paid for by the EU… 😀

A lost debate really! we are all still paying massive prices! think we English lost the will to fight! your views?

I don’t like it any more than the next person but the treasury is raising approximately £25 billion from fuel duty and about another £9 billion from VAT on fuel. What fairer way is there to do this, higher income-tax?

Personally, I dread the day that satellite road-pricing is fitted to every vehicle.

The government will then not only be able to limit how much we drive (due to cost) but also where and when we can drive…

…plus they will be able to tell if we have been speeding, anywhere, and at any time.

Big Brother is watching you…..drive! 🙁

Aah, but sir, you are confusing “Raising” with need.
That money is raised for Government purposes, we’d foolishly like to think that Road tax/Fuel duty & VAT would be spent on the actual roads.
Now, through decades of neglect the roads do in fact need that much, but do not get it.
Let us boldy assume that our roads were in good condition. The maintenance bill and the occasional new bypass is the “Need”. The “Raise” will still be as much as they can fleece from a susceptible and captive market.
I’m a smoker, I’d like to think that the heavy tax on the cigs goes to the NHS. LoL!
I live in an area where it is impossible to get a NHS Dentist, I have to drive 48 miles. Do I get a Nat. Insurance rebate? LoL.
It is the Governments duty to claw as much as possible from the proletariate.
It is therefore the duty of the proletariat to attempt to pay as little tax as possible.

I don’t like it any more than the next person but the treasury is raising approximately £25 billion from fuel duty and about another £9 billion from VAT on fuel. What fairer way is there to do this, higher income-tax?

Personally, I dread the day that satellite road-pricing is fitted to every vehicle.

The government will then not only be able to limit how much we drive (due to cost) but also where and when we can drive…

…plus they will be able to tell if we have been speeding, anywhere, and at any time.

Big Brother is watching you…..drive! 🙁

They do that a lot, actually, but the price of crude is established on a speculative market, the traders being mostly the oil companies themselves and a bunch of terribly paranoid and neurotic speculants. But yes oil companies do trade a lot within the company. Great Yellow Clam Pumping will sell their crude to Great Clam Transport, which will sell it’s stuff to Great Yellow Clam Refining, which will sell it on to Great Clam Petrol Stations. The profit hence isn’t just created when you fill up your fueltank, the profit is created all along the way from oilfield up to your cars cylinders.

It must be said that most non-motorway petrol stations can’t depend on selling fuels. While fuel will remain the corebusiness, the profit actually comes from icecream and cigarettes and stuff like that.

Take issue there.

OPEC and the other cartels decide the price of crude. The speculators forecast what the cartels will be doing next week.
And, profit on fuel.
I broke down at a Motorway service station last summer. I had to push my car off the Forecourt of the petrol station. So to kill time I people watched at the garage.
The only people that fill up at the motorway are Reps/Business folk spending other peoples money and a few that are too rich to care. Most ordinary folk put a tenner in to make sure they get to the next A road etc. About 25% of people don’t buy another product, the other 75% buy a single or maybe two items. Principally the fags and paper, or milk. A choc. bar, or for those with kids…they seem to be pressured into buying a 22kg bag of Maynards vomitgums for £2.99 (Whatever happened to Lions brand – real tastes!!!).

This of course was just me, one afternoon, one garage. So bored I actually made a point of such a study.

And finally, I do not object whatsoever to the profit made by the oil companies, if we were right and it’s 10p on 29p, that’s a healthy 34%. Good luck to them. I 100% object to any tax or duty being on it. OK, maybe we should add 17.5% VAT so 46p a litre would be the uppermost estimate of a price. The fact that VAT should be near 11% is another topic.

I totally believe in the Land mine theory, it’s an old trick and was used in some movie. Put small mines in the road, make troops jump into ditch where the big mines are. In this way, we have a government telling us to “Get on yer bike” for jobs. Then the buses were denationalised, giving such a poor service that people were forced into own vehicles. Now most of the adult workers are dependant on purchasing fuel, a final kick in the goolies by Dutying it to the maximum possible, and then some more.

It raises an interesting issue. At what point is the price of crude is being measured since the oil companies also do (most of) the refining…..are they selling oil to themselves? 😉

They do that a lot, actually, but the price of crude is established on a speculative market, the traders being mostly the oil companies themselves and a bunch of terribly paranoid and neurotic speculants. But yes oil companies do trade a lot within the company. Great Yellow Clam Pumping will sell their crude to Great Clam Transport, which will sell it’s stuff to Great Yellow Clam Refining, which will sell it on to Great Clam Petrol Stations. The profit hence isn’t just created when you fill up your fueltank, the profit is created all along the way from oilfield up to your cars cylinders.

It must be said that most non-motorway petrol stations can’t depend on selling fuels. While fuel will remain the corebusiness, the profit actually comes from icecream and cigarettes and stuff like that.

Yes, can’t really disagree with that; also modern petrol (and diesel) cannot be made from crude oil alone, other things must be added…..but none of these things are free.

Agreed, these are rough figures, which were done for another thread to illustrate that the oil companies couldn’t really be pressured into lowering their prices drastically to secure customer loyalty.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=77795

I’ve scrapped duty and its VAT. The fuel is 39p including the 10p profit. So where do I jump to 93p a litre?

£0.93 would be the price per litre if the government added current duty and VAT back onto fuel sold on a ‘non-profit’ basis (£0.29 per litre) by the oil companies. This was to illustrate the point above in the previous thread.

And, no loss is made on petrol by the oil companies. They sell the other half for oils, soaps etc. but the profit on combustable fuel is as you possibly the 10p on 29p. The cost of extraction/distribution etc. is already in the crude price.

Yes, I didn’t think that last part through did I? 😮 Thought there was something wrong! :confused:

I suppose it boils down to what the ‘other’ stuff in crude sells for. Much of it will be of comparable value to the oil company, diesel, kerosene, heating-oil, lubricating-oil, bitumen, which will all ‘balance’ the cost of crude for petrol.

You make a good point about extraction also; that should be included in the cost of the crude but the distribution of the petrol to the point of sale will be extra.

It raises an interesting issue. At what point is the price of crude is being measured since the oil companies also do (most of) the refining…..are they selling oil to themselves? 😉

Something always forgotten: a 159 litre barrel of crude will give up to 170 litres of refined product, depending on the type of crude (basically: where it’s pumped up) and refining process (emphasis on light or heavy products). Crude is more dense than it’s derived products. Since oil is sold per volume and not by weight, there is an extra margin often overlooked when making rough calculations.

Just to clear up the tax / duty thing here are some figures I did for another thread:

Petrol costs on average £1.049 per litre.

Fuel duty is (before the £0.02 increase in April 2008) about £0.50 per litre and VAT at 17.5% is paid on both the fuel and the duty.

So removing all VAT and duty would make petrol cost about £0.39 per litre.

A barrel (159 litres) of crude oil costs today about £46 ($91 but it has been as high as $100 recently) so that would make the ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol about £0.29 per litre.

Leaving just £0.10 per litre to cover all exploration, extraction, refining, transportation and profit for the oil company and the retailer.

So even if the oil companies and retailers made no profit and the petrol magically appeared in the pumps…

…your petrol would still cost £0.93 per litre!

Also only about 50% of the barrel of crude can be made into petrol (the rest isn’t wasted but it can’t be made into petrol) so the actual ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol is more like £0.55 per litre…

…which means that the oil companies make a loss on petrol. :confused:

The figures are a couple of months out of date but you get the idea.

The government could easily reduce the price of fuel for all motorists but the treasury would need to raise that money from us somehow. At least a duty on road fuel reflects the damage to the environment caused by cars and helps promote fuel economy in vehicle design.

Angonnamo.
I’ve scrapped duty and its VAT. The fuel is 39p including the 10p profit.
So where do I jump to 93p a litre?
And, no loss is made on petrol by the oil companies. They sell the other half for oils, soaps etc. but the profit on combustable fuel is as you possibly the 10p on 29p. The cost of extraction/distribution etc. is already in the crude price.

Just to clear up the tax / duty thing here are some figures I did for another thread:

Petrol costs on average £1.049 per litre.

Fuel duty is (before the £0.02 increase in April 2008) about £0.50 per litre and VAT at 17.5% is paid on both the fuel and the duty.

So removing all VAT and duty would make petrol cost about £0.39 per litre.

A barrel (159 litres) of crude oil costs today about £46 ($91 but it has been as high as $100 recently) so that would make the ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol about £0.29 per litre.

Leaving just £0.10 per litre to cover all exploration, extraction, refining, transportation and profit for the oil company and the retailer.

So even if the oil companies and retailers made no profit and the petrol magically appeared in the pumps…

…your petrol would still cost £0.93 per litre!

Also only about 50% of the barrel of crude can be made into petrol (the rest isn’t wasted but it can’t be made into petrol) so the actual ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol is more like £0.55 per litre…

…which means that the oil companies make a loss on petrol. :confused:

The figures are a couple of months out of date but you get the idea.

The government could easily reduce the price of fuel for all motorists but the treasury would need to raise that money from us somehow. At least a duty on road fuel reflects the damage to the environment caused by cars and helps promote fuel economy in vehicle design.

Far from inconceivable, most retailers make most of their profits out of what you buy in the shop when you pay for your petrol, very little if any profit is creamed of the core product.

Just to clear up the tax / duty thing here are some figures I did for another thread:

Petrol costs on average £1.049 per litre.

Fuel duty is (before the £0.02 increase in April 2008) about £0.50 per litre and VAT at 17.5% is paid on both the fuel and the duty.

So removing all VAT and duty would make petrol cost about £0.39 per litre.

A barrel (159 litres) of crude oil costs today about £46 ($91 but it has been as high as $100 recently) so that would make the ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol about £0.29 per litre.

Leaving just £0.10 per litre to cover all exploration, extraction, refining, transportation and profit for the oil company and the retailer.

So even if the oil companies and retailers made no profit and the petrol magically appeared in the pumps…

…your petrol would still cost £0.93 per litre!

Also only about 50% of the barrel of crude can be made into petrol (the rest isn’t wasted but it can’t be made into petrol) so the actual ‘cost’ of the crude in petrol is more like £0.55 per litre…

…which means that the oil companies make a loss on petrol. :confused:

The figures are a couple of months out of date but you get the idea.

The government could easily reduce the price of fuel for all motorists but the treasury would need to raise that money from us somehow. At least a duty on road fuel reflects the damage to the environment caused by cars and helps promote fuel economy in vehicle design.

Ren, I recall about 10 years ago when barrel prices went down to about 12-14 dollars. A chum working for Schlumberger got laid off as they were losing money. A high cost market attracts profits in this industry. Admittedly diesel if oft-said to be a cheaper product than petrol and given the economical benefits it brings (less CO2/km), should accordingly be taxed less.

I get about 70% better mpg than my previous petrol-driven car.