Picture of the day 15/12/01

RE: BuNo.123168

Thanks for that Rob…….that’s just about the kind of story I was thinking of myself !

So if I was to buy (!) the real remains of 122719 from Tom Reilly and want to get it restored, registered and flying………what serial number could I legally give it?
Aren’t the FAA going to be a wee bit “confused” if I went to them with my Corsair and told them it was 122719 which is already flying of course…..at least it is as far as they are concerned !

I presume I would have to adopt yet another ID for it….perhaps 123168 ?

I agree that it is more important that the Corsair is actually flying, but it would also be nice if some people could take more care with the history of these machines, especially if it happens to have an interesting history, perhaps with an Ace having flown it maybe.

I note what you say about the owner having better things to do than change the serial back to 123168, and I (reluctantly !) agree……but can this be legally done anyway ?

TTFN
Mick
Honourary member of the anal retentives club !

RE: BuNo.123168

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-12-01 AT 10:50 PM (GMT)]Yeah, I’m not a big fan of “borrowed identities” when it comes to warbird restorations. I’ve been tracking and researching the surviving Corsairs for over 20 years now, and I’ve made every effort to record all instances of borrowed identity, as well as ‘multiple fuselage’ restorations, etc.

BuNo.123168 was one of the F4U’s brought back disassembled from Honduras in 1979. At some point during the years, its data plate was removed. Pete Thelen bought the plane in 1987 from John Mullen and proceeded to restore her. At that time he also owned F4U-5NL BuNo.124692 (sold to Bob Collings), F4U-5N BuNo.124493 (which he traded to the RNZAF Museum on behalf of Disney Studios), and the substantial (though somewhat burnt) remains of F4U-5N BuNo.122179.

BuNo.123168 was the airframe Mr. Thelen chose to restore for himself. Unfortunately, its identity was unknown at that time. I contacted Mr. Thelen during the restoration of the plane and he informed me that it would be easiest to use the Bureau Number from 122179 to register the aircraft to fly. Regardless, I sought to discover the plane’s true identity for the sake of historical record.

After searching out various sales and import documents, and through process of elimination, I accounted for and tracked the movement of every airframe returned from Honduras. All were known airframes and all were accounted for except for BuNo.123168. A sales receipt identified 123168 as one of the airframes transfered to Hollywood Wings in Long Beach, CA arriving disassembled on flatbed train cars. I then spoke to various individuals who purchased these airframes from Hollywood Wings. These witnesses paited a vivid picture of the available airframes as they were stored outdoors at Long Beach Airport in 1979/80. All were accounted for, including the one unidentified airframe purchased by John Mullen (BuNo.123168) which made its way to Pete Thelen.

By the time I approached Mr. Thelen with my findings, he had already registered the plane and it was on the verge of its first flight. Some components (other than the data plate) from BuNo.122179’s airframe were actually used to aid 123168’s restoration which probably gave legal credence to the use of the donor aircraft’s registration number.

I’ve yet to discover the point in time when BuNo.123168 lost it’s data plate, and to this day it’s still moonlighting as 122179. My hopes are that one day its true identity will be “officially” reinstated. Right now, I can see how approaching the FAA about a million dollar aircraft/investment with a questionable liniage is probably not top priority for the current owner. All of my anal-retentiveness aside :), I’m personally quite satisfied just knowing the aircraft is maintained in immaculate airworthy condition, and that it is operated by the very capable hands of its current owner.

For the record, the REAL BuNo.122179 is sitting in outdoor storage at Tom Reiley’s facility in Florida awaiting a new owner and large amounts of TLC.

RE: BuNo.123168 @ Falaise, France

Hmmmm…that last attachment didn’t work for me.I was also going to mention that the WOGB/Flying A Services Wildcat has also gone abraod along with the Hellcat and Corsair.Both the F4F and F6F have reportedly gone to Microsoft founder Paul Allen,who sadly seems to be equally secretive with his aeroplanes! 🙁

BuNo.123168 @ Falaise, France

Here is photograph showing 123168 at Falaise.

Benjamin.
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RE: BuNo.123168

BuNo.123168 was displayed at 2 airshows only: Biggin Hill and the Falaise airshow in France.

Benjamin.

RE: BuNo.123168

Interesting Mick,

Surely not another Data-Plate restoration? So it’s an F-4U/1/2/3/4/5/6/7 ? lol

….and I’m still wondering if Yak 11, is in fact a famous 80’s songster, and a very nice bloke to boot….

Can I claim me mystery fiver now?

Tony

RE: BuNo.123168

Umm, Perhaps it was a year earlier when i took that photo……. tempus fugit!!!!!!

RE: BuNo.123168

It was the Wildcat, and the newly arrived Hellcat that were on display that day. Today only the Wildcat is left from this trio, anything else that may or may not be there bears a remarkable resemblance to a shipping container. Great shame!!!!!

RE: BuNo.123168

The picture was taken at North Weald in 1999 along with the Bear cat,these aircraft are very rarely wheeled out.Last year Flypast tried very hard to negotiate then being on display at the photocall but the owner was not playing ball, its a great shame that someone can own such great aircraft yet not want to let anyone see them let alone fly them!
I will post the others another day.
Phil.

RE: BuNo.123168

That’s interesting Rob.

I got the info from the WW Directory, and a website www.warbirds-online.com

123168 is not listed in that book (not my copy anyway), so 122179 must have adopted the ID of 123168 after it was rebuilt by Pete Thelen before sale to WOGB in 88…..?……or has 122179 adopted 123168 since it went back to the US, for “paperwork” reasons ?…….or was it really 123168 all along, and for “paperwork” reasons while under rebuild by Pete Thelen, it had to adopt the ID of the crashed 122179………know what I mean Rob ?

Hhmmmmmmm yet another dodgy ID….can’t get enough of them can we ?

TTFN
Mick

BuNo.123168

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-12-01 AT 03:04 AM (GMT)]That’s actually F4U-5N BuNo.123168. BuNo.122179 was partially destroyed in a post accident fire in Texas during 1984.

I was present when the plane pictured was involved in the Corsair/Bearcat mishap at Oshkosh ’99. Damned disaster!

James Read never missed a lick, and has been present at every Oshkosh airshow since the incident. BuNo.123168 suffered a blown right tire, some slight wrinkling of the port wing, and some very slight distortion in the fuselage metal just aft of the cowling on the port side of the fuselage. Mr. Read’s feat in avoiding that accident didn’t receive enough publicity. He made one hell of a quick split-second decision. If not for that, his F4U and the 2nd Bearcat would have suffered a worse fate than the two aircraft that were damaged.

Rob Mears

P.S. – BuNo.123168 now wears the Korean War-era markings of VMF-312 which primarily flew F4U-4B’s rather than F4U-5N’s. The paint scheme worn by BuNo.123168 during its WoGB days was actually an authentic scheme more suited to the F4U-5 model. My uncle flew for VMF-312 during the Korean War so, though less flashy, I personally enjoy the current scheme a bit more. 😉

RE: Picture of the day 15/12/01

Enjoy this baby!

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RE: Picture of the day 15/12/01

Lovely aeroplane, saw it fly from Earls Colne to North Weald a few years back, would have seen it fly from Holland to the UK if she hadn’t developed a problem on the day, had to make do with the Wildcat instead.

Gone back to the USA

BuNo 122179 N179PT, last owned by WOGB, sold to Jim Read of Indiana two or three years ago, now repainted in more authentic markings……and NO, I never even saw it, let alone saw it fly !

TTFN
Mick