Piece of Cake again

Interesting indeed.

I always thought, though, that “Squadron Leader Ramsey” was based almost entirely on a similar character in either Richey’s book, or another. I seem to recall reading of a real Squadron Leader Ramsey, who was also nicknamed “The Ram” for saying something about ramming enemy bombers (the exact wording of it I cannot recall off the top of my head, but I’m sure it was in Richey’s book).

If no-one can confirm, I’ll have a look when I get home.

I agree with Rockerteer, an interesting discussion!

That sounds a bit more than mildly peeved to me, there must be something fairly concrete I would think.

Whoever persuaded Richey to go to court didn’t have his best interests at heart. To prove plagerism or libel (I don’t know which he was arguing, but it would, it seems, have been one of these) would be almost impossible in this case. It sadly made for good column inches, but wasn’t going to be good for Richey, or prove anything. As I said originally, and I’m happy to believe, Robinson chose his data carefull and well, and could document it.

‘heroes all’? No, that’s part of the point. To believe that there were no scoundrels, liars, cowards, fools, egotists and charlatans in the RAF in ’39 – ’40 is to lessen the standing of the majority who were not like that. And never mind those who made mistakes, as we all do. As we have already discussed there were some actions which were reprehensible; the character Lance ‘Moggy’ Catermole is a very believable psycopathic fraud. There was a place for someone like him in an air force at war; and such people exist. But he was not a hero.

Too many of the actions, tactics and policies of the 1930s and 1940 RAF were stupid or immoral; again, glossing over them does no-one credit and reinforces the ‘war as sport’ all lads together mentality which gets people killed, pointlessly.

A search on ‘Piece of Cake’ on this forum comes up with some other interesting threads BTW.

Cheers!

I think the book covers a too wide amount of time to be enclosed in a single movie (anybody fancy a trilogy? :D), and yes, Moggy doesnt actually shoot at the car, he just gives it a really close shave, and that was common practice in all the air forces. Being a youngster and sitting on a growling flying thing with loads of HP doesnt help your good manners, does it? 😉

Cheers

Alex

What- brown sauce?
😀

Returning to comments made earlier, I only bought Fighter Pilot earlier this year. The edition I have was published after Paul Richey’s death and completed by a female with the same surname, presumably wife or daughter.
I can’t lay my hands on it at the moment so I’m not certain of the exact wording but there was a mention of an ongoing (court?) case regarding Piece of Cake. That sounds a bit more than mildly peeved to me, there must be something fairly concrete I would think.

he was stuck in the toilet thanks to his “attributes” while a Me110(?) strafed the airfield.. not really a glorious end for a RAF officer..

Alex

Correct – and he was blown across the airfield, IIRC. There was a “Baggy Bletchley Memorial Trophy” or something similar in the book – made out of the bog’s seat.

he was stuck in the toilet thanks to his “attributes” while a Me110(?) strafed the airfield.. not really a glorious end for a RAF officer..

Alex

They could film the sequel with P-40’s in Australia, as theren are several of type flying downunder nowadays, and parts of the outback double well as the Western Desert of Africa.

How did Bletchley supposedly die? I don’t recall this being in the series, or am I having a memory balnk? I’ve never seen the book.

You’d be talking of “A Good Clean Fight”. Many of the squadron’s characters are in it – ‘Fanny’ Barton, ‘Pip’ Patterson, ‘Skull’ Skelton and ‘Uncle’ Kellaway.

What bothers me is that Air Commodore Bletchley is in it – he DIED in Piece of Cake! :confused:

To be honest, it’s not my favourite of DR’s books, but it is nevertheless a stonking read. His Bomber Command book, Damned Good Show, is also a cracker.

(I notice he has written a book called Invasion 1940 – at least I assume it’s the same DR!)

well, “Baggy” Bletchley’s destiny is one of the question marks of PoC i think: there’s no mentioning of his death, even if his last appearance puts him against all odds..

Alex

The book sequel to “A Piece of Cake” – whose name does elude me at the moment – is set in North Africa, with Hornet Squadron re-equipped with Kittyhawks. Now that would make an interesting TV-series sequel. There are a lot of P-40 “Kittyhawk” re-builds flying at the moment!

…geoff

You’d be talking of “A Good Clean Fight”. Many of the squadron’s characters are in it – ‘Fanny’ Barton, ‘Pip’ Patterson, ‘Skull’ Skelton and ‘Uncle’ Kellaway.

What bothers me is that Air Commodore Bletchley is in it – he DIED in Piece of Cake! :confused:

To be honest, it’s not my favourite of DR’s books, but it is nevertheless a stonking read. His Bomber Command book, Damned Good Show, is also a cracker.

(I notice he has written a book called Invasion 1940 – at least I assume it’s the same DR!)

There were sequels (discussed here, too) to PoC, and IIRC the Squadron ends up in N Africa. I keep meaning to track them down. Good writing.

The book sequel to “A Piece of Cake” – whose name does elude me at the moment – is set in North Africa, with Hornet Squadron re-equipped with Kittyhawks. Now that would make an interesting TV-series sequel. There are a lot of P-40 “Kittyhawk” re-builds flying at the moment!

…geoff

Heroes all regardless

yep that is the true sentiment trumper and I wholeheartedly agree.

Thankyou gentlemen for a good and lively discussion on this thread. This sort of discussion is what makes the forum so good.

It annoys me to think how people from all sides and armed forces during the wars were castigated for apparent L M F,to go out with a weapon knowing that someone else is doing the same on the opposite side to kill you is enough to make anyone scared.
Heroes all regardless

talking about bad experiences for pilots, I once read a story of a Jug pilot who was attacked by a FW190 while on his way back to UK. He was hit by surprise and couldnt do any successful evasive manouver and could feel his Jug taking bad hits, many of them banging hard on the armoured headrest. After a few minutes of desperate evasive actions the FW gave up the chase, probably having finished the ammunition, and once again the Jug pilot found himself alone over the Channel. He was shaking really hard for the shock and literally peed in his pants for the fear. After a while the shock took over and he eventually threw up on his legs. Even if the plane was seriously damaged he flew his way back home and made an emergency landing. The crewmen that ran at the plane to pull the pilot out and they were tactful enough not to comment about the mess inside the cockpit…
The average pilots were 24 at the time, an age when a cockpit hammered by a german MG is the last place u want to be…

Cheers

Alex

I’ve yet to read of this happening to an Allied pilot

There’s an old saying “History is written by the winners.” It may not have happened, but knowing human nature, if it didn’t I’d be surprised. In the nature of the action, it would be hard to be certain, and no-one would be trying to hard to prove it.

As some of the heroes are shuffling off the mortal coil, some suppressed info of less laudable and some accidental happenings are coming out. The Bader shootdown and the role of a later ace and hero in the Battle of Barking Creek are two that come to mind.

There were sequels (discussed here, too) to PoC, and IIRC the Squadron ends up in N Africa. I keep meaning to track them down. Good writing.

I’ve yet to read of this happening to an Allied pilot, but I’ve read several times of Luftwaffe pilots with a P-51 on their tail bailing out before a shot was fired, and who could blame them?

…I guess it’s something no pilot would easily talk about…

Alex

bailing out…

….wouldn’t you?

Be honest

It probably happened, though. A lot of guys lost their nerve, but showed it other ways. In the movie Dark Blue World, one of the pilots, Mrtvy, turns back several times.

In real-life Johnny Houlton, NZ Spitfire pilot and wartime ML407 jockey, got something called ‘the twitch’. Attacking a road convoy one day, he “got the insane urge to rip open the canopy and jump out, in mid-air”. (From “A Perfect Lady”)

I’ve yet to read of this happening to an Allied pilot, but I’ve read several times of Luftwaffe pilots with a P-51 on their tail bailing out before a shot was fired, and who could blame them?

Showing one of the pilots bailing out before being hit was a step too far though, and was probably the straw that broke the camels back in upsetting the veterans.

It probably happened, though. A lot of guys lost their nerve, but showed it other ways. In the movie Dark Blue World, one of the pilots, Mrtvy, turns back several times.

In real-life Johnny Houlton, NZ Spitfire pilot and wartime ML407 jockey, got something called ‘the twitch’. Attacking a road convoy one day, he “got the insane urge to rip open the canopy and jump out, in mid-air”. (From “A Perfect Lady”)

What they did was to keep going, and they used every defence mechanism they could to cope.

A great thread.

Derek Robinson was showing that like any group in society, you will get bullies, cowards the whole range.Obviously you didn’t get the whole lot in one Squadron, but for dramatic effect thats how it was done.Showing one of the pilots bailing out before being hit was a step too far though, and was probably the straw that broke the camels back in upsetting the veterans.

Thanx for the correction Alex and Daz

I still love the series. I find it amusing that hi jinx in the mess still happens and jolly fun it is too….though they dont like pianos being burnt!! 🙂

Just to let you know that pianos are still burnt, usually at aircrew funerals – and empty champagne glasses are thrown at it, as its plays its last tune. High spirits are still tolerated/encouraged/moderated in the Officers Mess, see www.pprune.org Military Aircrew and you’re sure to find some examples.

I enjoy reading of how it really was in the war. But, each account is personal and reflects the personality of the author (compare the thoughtful, sensitive Roger Hall to the classic ‘live for the day’ memories of ‘Dizzy’ Allen, both men earned the DFC). I think that as many fighter pilots are unstable extroverts, the attitude apparent in many memoirs are bound to have that sort of feel to them. Finding accounts which reveal the inner thoughts of the author, I find particularly revealing.

IMHO, Piece of Cake was a watershed in, I suppose, acknowledging that these were men with the same strengths and weaknesses of many of us. What they did was to keep going, and they used every defence mechanism they could to cope.

A great thread.