Poland fans to unveil flag commemorating WWII pilots

Karol Pniak with Battenberg Image on his Aircraft

I agree with Realpolitik.

It should also be remembered that many Poles and Czechs and Yugoslavs served with distinction in the the RAF well into the ’60’s. Out of 10 pilots on my first squadron, 2 were Polish, and from 20 in my second 3 were Poles. They made a very significant contribution, one I particularly remember served time in first a Russian and later a German PoW camp, but he was still a first class pilot always contesting top place in the air firing score sheet.

Here is Karol PNIAK VM DFC Dutch DFC 8 Kills

My actual point was by the end of WW2 Churchill and Britain had no influence on events. And Stalin could run rings round Truman. Yalta and Potsdam agreements were a disgrace. Many Poles who fought for the West were disgraced, imprisoned and worse when they returned home. But short of the West taking on the Red Army at the end of WW2, what else could be done? (Churchill’s only concern was that Greece would remain outside the Soviet camp as he had romantic ideas that Greece was the birthplace of the concept of Democracy). That was the reality at the time.

I agree with Realpolitik.

It should also be remembered that many Poles and Czechs and Yugoslavs served with distinction in the the RAF well into the ’60’s. Out of 10 pilots on my first squadron, 2 were Polish, and from 20 in my second 3 were Poles. They made a very significant contribution, one I particularly remember served time in first a Russian and later a German PoW camp, but he was still a first class pilot always contesting top place in the air firing score sheet.

Realpolitik

Real politics I’m afraid mike J. Although by the end of the war what influence Churchill still had is debatable and I think he knew that there was very little the West could do to stop the Soviets doing what they wanted in the east.

Realpolitik is a cool logic. It is an adjective that often shields the conscience of the timid and the cruelty of the assertive.

My father is 97, former Polish pilot in the RAF. On his way to join the RAF in 1942 he was exposed to what might be called acute experiences of the human condition, courtesy of Hitler and Stalin. In all the times that he has spoken of these experiences he has been phlegmatic in his description. When you deal with an assertive murderer, you expect murder.

The only time I have seen him upset, to this day, is in describing the decision of the UK government to deny Polish servicemen the right to march in the Victory Parade. I understand this was a decision of the Atlee government. I wonder if this would have occurred if Churchill were still Prime Minister. Irrespective of the tensions arising from the resetting of Europe’s fault lines, Churchill had both the instinct and the credibility to force the issue with Stalin : it was just a parade. It was not Britain’s finest hour.

Much has changed since then. It would cause no offence to anyone to allow Polish ex servicemen, while they are still alive, a belated acknowledgement of their fundamental part in the Battle of Britain, when the realpolitik of Ambassador Joseph Kennedy of the United Sates deemed it prudent to advise the United States government to abandon Britain to the Nazis. Thankfully Atlee was not the President.

I wonder what can be done in Great Britain today in the form of a formal invitation from the government to Polish ex servicemen to participate in a commemorative event linked to VE Day. No doubt some remaining servicemen will say ‘too little, too late’ and most would not be able to physically attend. Some may find the gesture helpful in dissipating a spirit of what, to a young serviceman, after all the effort, could only be felt as a betrayal. It does nobody any good to leave it unresolved.

The use of the Polish Air Force symbol at a football match in the United Kingdom has a far deeper meaning and connection in Polish spirit than the everyday of a football match might imply. The powers that be understood this in the war and allowed it on the fuselage of Polish squadrons as they allowed Commonwealth airmen a shoulder patch that connected each to their own country and story.

I guess the lesson for today is always listen to the earnest reasoning of realpolitik : never trust it.

David,

Try telling that to my mother in law! 🙂

Real politics I’m afraid mike J. Although by the end of the war what influence Churchill still had is debatable and I think he knew that there was very little the West could do to stop the Soviets doing what they wanted in the east.

What the RAF did to help Poland still means a huge amount to the Poles.

Many of the older generation in Poland have never forgiven Churchill for, as they see it (with considerable justification), selling the Polish nation down the river to the Soviets to appease Stalin at the end of the War. 🙁

Perhaps England fans can display a flag with a Spitfire on it at the match with Germany :>)

Well, as an avid aviation fan who often travels to Wembley to see England play, there is a little ditty the England fans sing – indirectly showing support for the Poles. Here isn’t the place for it but it’s there.

I have to confess that I have no idea which ditty you mean, Rich, but I consider the news that there is one worthy of a :applause:

Adrian

Absolutely – good for them!

It would be nice if the England fans could come up with an appropriate reply. I fear not, but I hope to be proven wrong.

Adrian

Well, as an avid aviation fan who often travels to Wembley to see England play, there is a little ditty the England fans sing – indirectly showing support for the Poles. Here isn’t the place for it but it’s there.

What the RAF did to help Poland still means a huge amount to the Poles. At my wedding a few years ago, Dan Griffiths did a stunning display in Spitfire TE184 which we’d hired to display at the reception. One of the hotel waiters was Polish and he thanked us in tears the next day for having the Spitfire as it was “the first time I’ve seen one in the air after knowing how much they did for my country”. It took me by surprise but made it clear just how grateful they are.

Really good to see that being done at Wembley today – and to see ‘Hurricane’ mentioned on its own in a sentence and then before ‘Spitfire’ in another!

A first class idea.

As an aside my Polish pilot used to refer to Battenburg cake as “Polish Air Force cake”
For the uninitiated, Battenburg is yellow and red cake arranged in squares and bound together with a strip of marzipan. It very closely resembles the old Polish insignia

Respect

(May confuse some of the home supporters…..)

Some……..More like 90%.

Good on the Poles.

Absolutely – good for them!

It would be nice if the England fans could come up with an appropriate reply. I fear not, but I hope to be proven wrong.

Adrian

What a great idea! Looking forward to seeing that. But.. oh dear.. ‘aircrafts’?

Good job it wasn’t a Hurricane they wanted to pass around :).Good for them .