Political leaders

RE: Political leaders

Mongo

I believe your comments re post WWII in ref to the middle east are pretty fair although personally I think you give the British more credit than they deserve. I brought it up to remind folks here that the US to a large degree, carries the ball that others dropped. Do you think Israel would exist today if the US hadn’t supplied them with the means to defend themselves during the 1967 war? Would Europe have accepted the surviors? I know these are unfair questions.

I wasn’t attempting to be clever with my remark about the Arabs externalizing their problems, but I don’t know what else you can call it. US support for Israel is simply used to divert attention from the fact that the only Arabs that get to vote for their leaders are the ones who live in Israel. The Palistinians are used as a pawn and the Arab states will (as the man said) fight to the last one.

I don’t recall making any anti-Palistinian comments in these threads. ‘Knocking the palestinians so much!’ as you call it.??

Anyone who has access to American news and public affairs programming knows that Americans do not ‘ferociosly’ appose arab land claims nor are most Americans anti-arab. Perhaps you view is infuenced by the fact that most Europeans seem to be anti-Isreal?

I watch a significant amount of American programming and seldom do I hear American politicians or newscasters make snide or unkind remarks about Europeans that are said about Americans by folks on this forum. Nor do Americans externalize their problems to any significant degree that I have noticed. Mainly they accept their own shortcomming quite readily.

I am not an American, so perhaps I am talking out of turn, but I think European complacency just dosn’t cut it in the US. It didn’t before Sep 02 and less so now.

Sorry about mixing the threads. I wasn’t paying attention.

Regards

RE: Political leaders

Of course one never knows, but a declaration from the US saying that they would support an unification process would help. What I feel is that Taiwanese feel strong and independent because they have the full support of the US. I feel that the principle “One China, two systems” is a perfect solution. Like in Hong Kong. I am trying to put myself in the Chinese population side and thinking what I would do if a region of Spain splitted from us and the US would sell weapons and support to them. Would you imagine what you would feel if it happened in your country?. In any case, this topic wasn´t about this but about leaders and in any circunstance I meant to open any antiamerican front.

RE: Political leaders

Keltic

When asked a question you use the ‘don’t take it personal’
line. Fine, however, your answer to my question is simply based on your ‘personal’ brand of wishfull thinking and dosn’t contain a shread of fact to support your claim that the PRC and Taiwan would have kissed and made up by now if it had not been or US policy. Perhaps you should go back and read what Vortex had to say. Its always easier to blame others than it is to face up to the real cause. Thats what this thread is all about. Nevertheless, I hope you get your wish in due time.

Regards

RE: Political leaders

Well, as this thread seems to have become a proxy for the modem-killing Dutch invasion thread…

1. What US policy casued 11/9?

What a strange question. I never implied what caused 11/9, I just said that foreign policy should be an area that is looked at. Clearly, the interraction of lots of different policies collectively caused resentment to the US.

2. Six Day War

Yes, UK/France supported Israel in the depths of time. Both countries have now basically realised that they lack the resources to be global policemen.

But if you go back even further, to after WW2 and just before the state of Israel was created…

In general, occupying British forces tried to be even-handed in their treatment of Muslims/Jews. Both sides resented it and both sides committed acts of terror against British forces.

I don’t think that the UK or France were ever, naturally, in favour of one side over the other. We helped Israel a little more, partly because of US pressure and partly, because there was a lot of Holocaust guilt at the time. The precise issues at hand were given insufficient attention.

Also, I do not think you are being very clever by referring to the way in which Arabs sometimes externalise their problems onto the Israeli situation. Yes, they do. I admit it. But how does that affect the principles involved? When it comes down to it, the Muslims have an equal claim over Israel as the Jews do. Europeans more or less accept this, the US denies it ferociously.

Also, I cannot conceive a possible reason why you knock the Palestinans so much! Yes, they support terrorists. Yes, women and children are murdered. But the same US citizens who condemn this, also supported tha ANC when they burned down Supermarkets and killed women and children in South Africa. The rationale seemed to be that this was justified, but the Palestinian attacks were not.

Take a step back from the principles for a second. Both groups (shall we say, the ANC and Islamic Jihad) were responsible for fairly similar acts. One is acceptable, but one is not. Why? Did white South Africans matter less than Israelis? Maybe they did, to the US – BUT NOT TO EUROPEANS.

RE: Political leaders

“its easy to blame the US”

and rightly so – we all need to blame someone 😀 }> 😀

god bless america

rabie :9

RE: Political leaders

You don´t know my real atittude to the US, since you don´t know me at all. So don´t assume anything in the personal side. It´s not a question of getting annoyed. Don´t take things personally. I am fully aware of history, and what happened in Taiwan. If the US didn´t support Taiwan so much, unification should have taken place. I still can´t understand how the US are still interfering in the internal affairs of two Chinese communities. Unification should be peaceful, but if the US shouldn´t be supporting to Taiwanese leaders, they would have realized that their way is China (since they are Chinese). Why do we celebrate the Hong Kong unification, Korean (in the future) or german and not the Chinese one?. Clinton views were more constructive. I would upset that China invaded Taiwan but I don´t think China would have the right to help them. Why?, Internal affairs, like in many other parts of the planet where civil conflict take place.

RE: Political leaders

Keltic

Please explain how the US is responsible for the state of affairs in Taiwan. How dare the US what? I know the US and others helped China during WWII but the issues between Taiwan and the PRC are the result of the civil war in China, not caused by the US. Its this type of BS comment which I find annoying. It says more about your real attitude toward the US than all your other comments.

Mongu

Correct me if I am wrong, but prior to the Six Day War, Israel’s principle supporters were France and the UK. At that point, they effectively abandoned Israel and it was left up to the US to step in and prevent a second holocaust. Muslims hate the Jews therefore the US is hated. The Arab countries have to externalize their own internal problems because it deverts attention from the fact that they are the cause of their own inadequate policies. Its easy to blame the US. Thats why some in the middle east celebrated the attack on the US last September. Not very original analysis and undoubtably an oversimplification but probably not far off the mark.

Regards

RE: Political leaders

Heres an obvious one: Fidel Castro- biggest bafoon of the 20th and 21st centurys. He got huge support from USSR during cold war simply for being a communist country a couple hundred miles off US shore. I cant really figure how the cuban people are still eating up his “revolutionary” babble and anti-US oppression doctrine even now while their country has gone back to the stone age. I dont have a problem with countrys being socialist or even communist if thats what they want, but to still blame everything on the US? Sorry, theyve created there own mess.

RE: Political leaders

In the UK:

Very popular: Ireland, Sweden, Australia, New Zealand
popular: Germany (though no one admits it!), the rest of Scandinavia
Neutral: Spain, Russia, the USA, Switzerland (oddly!)
Unpopular: Argentina, Zimbabwe, France

I think people like Sauron know exactly what the impression of foregin leaders is!

RE: Political leaders

No dear Sauron, don´t get confused and talk too quickly. Nobody are being anti american simply critical to some to its politicians. Critizing Bush or Rumsfeld, doesn´t mean critisizing America. At the same time, and fortunately Sharon is not Israel.

RE: Political leaders

Aren’t clowns to make you laugh? This one scares me, so he can’t be a clown.

RE: And even more anti-US crap

Another load of anti-American horsesh*t. Another thread which will quickly turn into another “the USA is the home of all evil in the world”.

Actually I like Blair and Putin. Like George they both have the balls to see that standing up to threats from the terrorist nations is the correct policy. Russia, Britain and the USA standing shoulder to shoulder again in the face of evil (scary stuff).

Rumsfeld? Now there is is a class act. Anyone who can kick a room full of reporters (Americans included) where it hurts the most and have them laughing at their own stupidity at the same time, gets my vote.

Sharon is not popular in Europe because he is a daily reminder of the millions of Jewish ghosts who haunt Europe due to their collective complacency.

Regards

RE: Political leaders

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-06-02 AT 05:49 PM (GMT)]Aznar -did I leave the microphone on when I was badmouthing the Parliament in front of 600 people and press-

Have you seen Bush trying to pronounce Aznar? He said it all wrong, something like Ranza :D. You gotta love GWB, now that the Simpsons are not on TV anymore.

Nations

Popular : Spain, Portugal; Italy, Greece, warm places
Neutral : Scandinavia, France, UK
Umpopular : Holland 😀 sometimes, US (not the country but the politics), maybe Brazil (let’s see tomorrow).

RE: Political leaders

Well, Ramsfeld is not a leader. He´s a militar. Sharon, sharon,sharon….umpopular, umpopular, umpopular

RE: Political leaders

In Belgium

Leaders :

Very popular : Blair, Solana, Clinton, Powel …
Popular : Aznar (especially after the Euro-parliament incident, which was really funny :D), Putin, Arafat? I can’t help it the newest fashion here is to wear PLO-scarfs 🙂
Neutral : Schroeder, Prodi,
Umpopular : Chirac, Berlusconi, Rumsfeld, SHARON SHARON SHARON…

Bush : just laughable, we don’t even look at him as a political leader, but as a clown