Portugal Air Force classic aircrafts

Thanks a mil for the info. There is one of the Lockheed P2V-5 nose turrets mounted on a pedestal at one of the bases (I saw a photo in one of my colleges photo collection). Pity I did not buy the book (I can’t buy them all no cash).

Hi João,
Welcome to the forum! It’s great to get new members, particularly from ‘somewhere else’ and it’s great you’ve been able to answer so many questions streight off.

Many thanks

This is my first post here, so behave, i’m a rookie. And sorry about my “perfect” English…

I’ll try to answer some of your questions (to the best of my knowledge):

One friend of mine told me that the Junkers JU-52 has been renovated and is in Belgium while Portugal Air Force gets a place to put it…

That Ju is stored at Alverca (nº6304- received on 1936) for some years now. It was restaured to it’s original condition except for the engines, P&W instead of BMW. I hope we can se it when the new Museum building is finished (2009??)…

In the photo of the Sud-Aviation SE3130 Alouette II, there is what appears to be a wing, with what looks like a pair of machine-guns ports in the leading edge – what is it?!

I don’t know what you are talking about (I only see tubes) but I can say that there are no machine guns in the Al-II.

They kept some Beaufighters, are there any Hurricane remains lurking somewhere?

We don´t have any Beau here. There are two surviving (ex-)Portuguese Beau’s, one in Hendon and the other was in South Africa (Now it´s in Scotland, I think).

About the Hurricanes, none survived, they were all scraped (120 of them, *******S). The only “thing” we have around here is a 1:1 replica and it’s bad, very bad. There are other “little” things like an engine, a propeller, some machine guns and canons…

The answers are within this splendid book.

If only I could read it.

Mark

You can, it’s writen in PT and English (the boos is divided 50-50). It´s a great book…

What about the half-dozen Jus/Toucans rotting away at a boneyard near Alverca do Ribatejo? I´ve seen pics in Flugzeug Classic this year and it was not a pretty sight …

They are still there,no money for the restauration. For me the worst thing is the PV-2 Harpoon falling apart (or the Invader).

The first one is in at least 3 sites I have seen references to the fact that Portugal bought the PZL 11 prototype and there is a photo of one at Alverca. Did this plane fly in Portuguese colours and what happen to it?

The PZL was only here for tests, it wasn´t bought neither had portuguese colours. The PoAF magazine talked about it a few mounths ago.

A few years ago I paged through a “German WWII production book” which I did not buy but in it where was a photocopy of a list of aircraft that were exported to various countries in it where the 10 JU86K-7, 10 JU52/3 and 10 or 12 fighters of the Arado family. As we did really get the bombers what happened to the fighters?

A lot of german planes were tested in the 30’s (including Arado, Heinkel and Me fighters) but only the Ju bombers were bought…

And last of all I saw some ware a photo of the Portuguese pilots converting to the Lockheed P2V-5 in Holland in front of a P2V with a front turret, did any of the aircraft transferred to Portugal have the front turret and tail turret at the time of hand over?

I don´t kow about the tail turret, but they arrived here with the nose turret. Shortly after the nose turrets were disassembled. There’s one left at Alverca’s boneyard…

Sorry for the huge post but I only found this topic now…

Some links about the Portuguese Museums:
Alverca- http://aeropaixao.fortunecity.com/FotosMuseuAr2.htm
Sintra (it´s very diffrent now)- http://aeropaixao.fortunecity.com/FotosFAP52Snt.htm
http://aeropaixao.fortunecity.com/FotosFAP50Snt.htm
http://jorgeruivo.fotopic.net/c608477.html

Any thing more feel free to ask.

Abraços:
João

Thanks,
for the info on Heron

I found this cutie at Culpepper airport, just north of Richmond, Virginia.

I have a few questions i hope some one can clear up for me.

A few years ago I saw a film of the last vist by the last governor to Timor and he got of a plane that looked like a “DeHavilland Heron in Portuguese air force colours”. It was rather quick and did I get the facts right?

There was only one Heron registered in Timor:
CR-TAI Transportes Aereos de Timor

Martin

I have a few questions i hope some one can clear up for me.

The first one is in at least 3 sites I have seen references to the fact that Portugal bought the PZL 11 prototype and there is a photo of one at Alverca. Did this plane fly in Portuguese colours and what happen to it?

http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str384.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/pzlp11.html

A few years ago I saw a film of the last vist by the last governor to Timor and he got of a plane that looked like a “Dehavillan Heron in Portuguese air force colours”. It was rather quick and did I get the facts right?

A few years ago I paged through a “German WWII production book” which I did not buy but in it where was a photocopy of a list of aircraft that were exported to various countries in it where the 10 JU86K-7, 10 JU52/3 and 10 or 12 fighters of the Arado family. As we did really get the bombers what happened to the fighters?

And last of all I saw some ware a photo of the Portuguese pilots converting to the Lockheed P2V-5 in Holland in front of a P2V with a front turret, did any of the aircraft transferred to Portugal have the front turret and tail turret at the time of hand over?

Boeing SB-17G Flying Fortress (299P)

Thanks for posting the great photos.
Do you have an identification for the Boeing SB-17G Flying Fortress (299P) in post #11 ?
Thanks again,
Don

JUNKERS JU 52 /3M G3
JUNKERS AMIOT AAC-1 TOUCAN
…
One friend of mine told me that the Junkers JU-52 has been renovated and is in Belgium while Portugal Air Force gets a place to put it…

What about the half-dozen Jus/Toucans rotting away at a boneyard near Alverca do Ribatejo? I´ve seen pics in Flugzeug Classic this year and it was not a pretty sight …

And it’s in a military musem?

It’s not just a military museum, but a museum of Portuguese aviation. There is also a civil Tiger Moth and Hornet Moth in the hangar at Sintra.

What did they do with all the Hurricanes they kept until the fifties (even after the film Angels One Five was shot using a dozen Portuguese aircraft? Cees

The answers are within this splendid book.

If only I could read it. 🙁

Mark

And it’s in a military musem?

In the photo of the Sud-Aviation SE3130 Alouette II, there is what appears to be a wing, with what looks like a pair of machine-guns ports in the leading edge – what is it?!

I think you’ll find it’s this Jurca Tempete.

What did they do with all the Hurricanes they kept until the fifties (even after the film Angels One Five was shot using a dozen Portuguese aircraft?

They kept some Beaufighters, are there any Hurricane remains lurking somewhere?

Cees

In the photo of the Sud-Aviation SE3130 Alouette II, there is what appears to be a wing, with what looks like a pair of machine-guns ports in the leading edge – what is it?!

Sintra Collection

I was at Sintra two months ago and saw all those preserved above and took these also: Broussard, Piper Cub (both airworthy) plus Sikorsky H-19 and newly repainted RT-33A.

Hello,

I am a new registered user, with a really poor English (I am French), and really interested in Jodel aircrafts. You mention having a “bébé” Jodel in your museum. It’s a good reason for me to come and see you. Have you some pictures?

Regards

That’s John Beattie’s Chipmunk, above.

From last years RIAT,

Originally posted by SteveYoung
Is it just me, or does that Chipmunk look as though she’s had an engine conversion? Lycoming?

Nice shots though Portugal, I’m intrigued about that B17. I take it she’s a static museum exhibit?

Yes, the chipmunk fleet had suffered some modifications, “The modifications introduced are comprised of a more powerful engine (145 HP for 180 HP); new brakes; new radio; transponder; drifts anti-vrille and original painting from the instruction in the Air Force, with inscription and emblem from the Air Force Academy . “

About the B17, the photos are from Lajes base in Azores in 1958!! We do not have any B-17 in the Air Force Museum.

Were’s the list of aircrafts that we have in musuem:

Flying:

AUSTER D5/160
NORTH AMERICAN T-6 G
DORNIER Do-27 A4
DE HAVILLAND DH 82A TIGER MOTH
PIPER PA-18 (L21 B) “SUPER CUB”
M.H.1521 BROUSSARD

Static Display(in Air Force museum in Alverca and in Air Force Base Nº1 Sintra):

SUD-AVIATION SE-3130 ALOUETTE II
AUSTER D5 / 160
VOUGHT A-7P CORSAIR II
BLERIOT XI
CAUDRON GIII
DEMOISELLE XX
FAIREY IIID
MAURICE FARMAN TIPO MF-4
FIAT G91 R/3
NORTH AMERICAN F-86F “SABRE”
GRUNAU BABY
HAWKER HURRICANE IIC
“BÉBÉ” JODEL D.9 (CS-AXA)
ROLANDO DE OLIVEIRA “NIKUS” MINIPLANE
PIPER PA-18 (L21B) SUPER CUB
SCHULGLEITER SG 38
SUPERMARINE SPITFIRE MK IX
DE HAVILLAND DH 82A TIGER MOTH
NORTHROP T-38A TALON
CESSNA T-37
GRUMAN G44 “WIDGEON”

VOUGHT A-7P CORSAIR II
DOUGLAS DC-3 (C-47) DAKOTA
DORNIER DO. 27 A4
DE HAVILLAND D.H.89-A DRAGON RAPIDE
DE HAVILLAND HORNET MOTH
NORTH AMERICAN F-86F “SABRE”
FIAT G91 R/3 – TIGER LIVERY
FIAT G91 R/3 – AERO MEMORIAL
JURCA TEMPÊTE
LOCKHEED P2V-5 NEPTUNE
SIKORSKY H-19
LOCKHEED T-33A SILVER STAR
NORTH AMERICAN T-6G (2)
NORTHROP T-38A “TALON”
SUD-AVIATION SE-3130 ALOUETTE II
AUSTER D5 / 160
PIPER PA-18 (L21B) SUPER CUB
DE HAVILLAND DH 82A TIGER MOTH (2) –
LOCKHEED RT-33

In the Air Force Command is one AVRO 631 “CADET”

In reserve we have:

VOUGHT A-7P CORSAIR II
SUD-AVIATION SE-3130 ALOUETTE II
BEECHCRAFT AT-11 “KANSAN”
MAX-HOLSTE M.H. 1521 BROUSSARD
DE HAVILLAND DH C1 CHIPMUNK
CUB (J3C / SP CRUISER / PA-18)
DOUGLAS DC-6 B
DE HAVILLAND DH 104 DOVE
REPUBLIC F-84G THUNDERJET
NORTH AMERICAN F-86F SABRE
LOCKHEED F-104 STARFIGHTER
FIAT G91 (R3 / R4 / T3)
BEECHCRAFT DS18/C-45 EXPEDITOR (3)
JUNKERS JU 52 /3M G3
JUNKERS AMIOT AAC-1 TOUCAN
MARCEL DASSAULT MIRAGE IIIR
NORD 2501-F NORATLAS
SCHULGLEITER SG 38
DOUGLAS C-54 SKYMASTER
SLINGSBY
NORTH AMERICAN T-6G
LOOCKHEED T-33A SHOOTING STAR
CESSNA T-37C
NORTHROP T-38A “TALON”
DE HAVILLAND DH 82A TIGER MOTH
DE HAVILLAND DH VAMPIRE
BEAGLE AIREDALE

One friend of mine told me that the Junkers JU-52 has been renovated and is in Belgium while Portugal Air Force gets a place to put it…