A question to the “aerodynamicsers” here, stimulated by a picture of this couple in your “The And Now For Something Completely Different Thread” (Mk1).
For an airshow, the Broussard carries up the Cricri. Then they separate in mid-air, and stay separated.
My question: Could they re-connect again? Or is this generally too dangerous? For an airshow, of course it is. But the background of the question is the imagination of giant pre-jet transoceanic bombers carrying one ore more parasite fighters on their back – and possibly taking them home again after them having successfully done their task over the enemy area…
What is your opinion? Thank you for answers!:)
(Picture source bjfloor.wordpress.com)
Regards, RT
By: BSG-75 - 15th August 2011 at 21:11
Ah, landing on moving platforms, my favourite episode………….
Nice one….
“air to air” activity featured a lot in Gerry Anderson shows, remember the moon shuttle in “UFO” that docked and undocked at high altitude, the Thunderbirds Are Go movie (which was Fireflash storyline again) did the same with Alan saving the day.
By: Romantic Techno - 15th August 2011 at 20:49
Thank you all for these very interesting contributions!:)
Regards, RT
By: Black Shoe - 15th August 2011 at 07:47
Here is a link to Col “Bud” Anderson’s webpage dealing with flight test for the parasite concept. You might also want to have a look at his book “To Fly and To Fight.” Includes several videos. The early concept was a wingtip “hook and eye” arrangement.
Bob
By: |RLWP - 14th August 2011 at 22:07
Ah, landing on moving platforms, my favourite episode………….
Oh, you beauty Spitfireman. Who says nostalgia isn’t what it was
Richard
{sigh}
By: spitfireman - 14th August 2011 at 22:02
Ah, landing on moving platforms, my favourite episode………….
By: pagen01 - 14th August 2011 at 21:36
He still does, I think he tries to make it look ‘hairy’, the whole routine allowed me enough time to get to the nearest food trailer, eat, and return for the next event!:rolleyes:
I think landing on a trailer in a slow aircraft is a different ball park to getting two aircraft to join in flight.
By: WJ244 - 14th August 2011 at 21:32
Brendan O’Brien used to take off and land back on a 30ft plus artic trailer in a Super Cub. I only ever saw him do it once and that looked hairy enough.
Mid air hook ups particularly between two aircraft of significantly different sizes must be a very dodgy proposition fom the point of view of wake turbulence. Throw in some wind and air turbulence and it must become downright dangerous at best.
By: |RLWP - 14th August 2011 at 21:28
A bit different, USS Akron and USS Macon recovered aircraft in the air:
Richard
By: Rocketeer - 14th August 2011 at 20:33
It would be possible but you have to take into account many issues not only aerodynamics but also visual cueing. For air to air refuelling, the receiver pilot needs to position the aircraft very accurately to make contact (especially the case with probe & drogue, boom and receptacle still needs precision, though the boomer has a reasonably hard job too!). To aid the receiver pilot there are various things like line up markings etc to help him/her. Same goes for landing on a bucking/pitching/heaving/rolling ship. Things could help, like a hook arrangement so pilot could get it into a ‘window’ and then be ‘grabbed’. Various airshow acts have seen aircraft be released from camper vans and then land back on….I guess the short answer is where there is a will…..
Then you need a risk assessement!!
By: Die_Noctuque - 14th August 2011 at 20:17
Shorts proposed a design, the PD17 which I am told by a current Shorts employee and archivist, was essentially a launch platform on which you attached whatever the standard strike fighter of the day would have been (at that time the English Electric P17 was seen to be the likely contender, it later became the TSR-2)
The PD17 took off vertically and accelerated up to the operational speed of the fighter aircraft at which point it separated and carried out it’s sortie.
The bit which is relevant to this thread is that at the end of the sortie the 2 aircraft would rendezvous and re-connect to land vertically,the PD17 then dropping off it’s parasite fighter to go and collect another awaiting in the circuit!
Apparently the VTOL capabilty was optional and could be left in the hangar so the whole setup could take off and land “conventionally”.
The proposal I have seen is dated October 1960 but it never made it any further than the drawing board. Shorts obviously believe it perfectly achievable however.
By: pagen01 - 14th August 2011 at 19:58
It is interesting that the main problem with USAF FICON and Tom Tom experiments in the late 1940s early ’50s, using B-29s and the XF-85 Goblin (intended for the B-36), and B-36s carrying F-84/RF-84s and parasite fighters, that release was straight forward enough but hook-up again was very difficult and extremely dangerous and seems to be the main reason for the projects being scuppered.
By: Arm Waver - 14th August 2011 at 19:46
I believe it is nigh on impossible.
When they flew the L-39’s for the Bond film one over the other they had trouble with the airflow forcing the upper aircraft off. (IIRC Mark Hannah was one of the pilots) so using that knowledge with two like airframes I think such disproportionate types would be no.
By: canadair - 14th August 2011 at 19:07
well, I am no aerodynamicist,
(not even sure I can spell it)
but I have done a fair bit of formation flying, and I think that while it would be fairly straight forward to “disconnect” reconnecting would be a completely different scenario.
I would not like to try and place that little Cri Cri in the tracks on the top of the Broussard mid air 3 feet behind that R985. No thanks!
Just watch some video on car/truck – aircraft recoveries, even then its not 100%, with plenty of go arounds, and thats with one of the two participants firmly attached to a runway,
with both in a three dimensional environment I think it would be extremely difficult, and potentially disasterous.
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August 14, 2011 at 5:22 pm