Possibly Complete 609 Sqd.Typhoon still in the English channel ?

This recovery was also published in FlyPast in 1984.

Cees

http://www.findonvillage.com/0355_who_flew_the_typhoon.htm

I expect this is the Tiffie you’re talking about. I came across the website after buying a piece of the engine on ebay ! Lovely.

Cheers,

Andy.

Lefty Page

Here’s the Typhoon Tempest page on Lefty-
http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/whitman.htm

Lefty

594 was coded Y-. I took down several details from his log book years ago. I haven’t run into him for a few years now, so I’m not sure if he’s still with us.. I’ve spent many a day listing to his stories including the ditching. I’ve got a model of 594 waiting for decals on my model bench right know. When done I might try and find him again… Lefty went on to Boscombe down after flying with #3 and flew several interesting types including Axis aircraft.. Had a promising career ahead as a test pilot until the RCAF said no!

Check out the Typhoon Tempest web site (can’t remember the ulr sorry) for a photo of Lefty back then..

Lefty Whitman

Neil,

EK217 QO-N 7/7/43 Sgt G A Whitman destroyed in landing accident Tangmere

JP594 13/9/43 Sgt G A Whitman Ditched on Air Sea Rescue

Do you know if Sgt Whitman is still around? Would be interesting to know more information about 594.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Dave

Typhoon ditchings

Snapper- Do you have a listing for Typhoons from #3 Sqrd. that ditched. I used to know a “Lefty” Whitman who ditched a Typhoon and he flew for #3. Thanks.. Neil Medcalf

No time to type up Turek tonight, but a quick skim says, nope. Not him. Perhaps Darkie meant another squadron pilot from the wing?

At 1815 Swingate report bandits at 12000ft, also mentioning friendlies. Section climbs (downsun) and has reached 8000ft when West sees 2 Fw 190s diving on them from upsun. He turns sharply and calls “Tally-Ho”! E/A overshoot and fire two bursts at Baldwin, the first severing his controls, the second putting his engine on fire. He goes down in a spin. West then has a dogfight with the 2 190s, which dash at him twice head-on. The second tome West sees strikes, but seeing white exhaust, thinks he has been hit himself, and dives for base, where he reports to F/Lt Wells. The latter has already had a report that a Typhoon has been seen descending in flames, but has failed to make Hornchurch believe this or even that any E/A have been in the vicinity. It is only when West lands that a section is finally sent to look for Baldwin. Fortunately and H.S.L. has put out from Ramsgate on the receipt of local information, and, guided by the escort of a convoy, find Baldwin just in time – without dinghy and an only partially inflated Mae west. He is taken to Ramsgate Hospital suffering from 2nd-degree burns to hands, face and knees.
Enemy Casualties: 1 FW 190 damaged (Sgt. West – Canadian)
Our “ 1 Typhoon Cat. E; F/O Baldwin D.F.C. rescued injured)
Baldwin’s aircraft bore the letter ‘R’ – about the 6th of that letter to end stickily. The 190s that shot it down are seen from Manston, even by the I.O. The result is a ‘Guns Alert’, followed immediately afterwards by a misleading diversion caused by a gun on Sgt. West’s aircraft going off during a test of the firing mechanism, this not having been unloaded first. A further misleading diversion follows when several Dover balloons are seen going down in flames. F/O Skett reports one after the other to F/Lt Wells at the phone, who in turn tells Hornchurch controller – but it is a thunderstorm, and when F/Lt Atkinson also reports them on the R/T and asks the cause, he is told simply, ‘Nature’ (he is alleged to have replied, ‘Shall I relieve Nature’?). Baldwin, interviewed in hospital next day, is still under the impression that he has been shot down by friendlies, partly owing to the fact that these had been reported, partly because he has been shot at by them several times before. His remark, ‘Stop shooting, you *******’! though it does not this time have the desired effect, and because Hornchurch seem to have been unaware of Huns, gives rise to the suspicion in high circles that he has in fact been shot down by his No. 2, and a long supplementary report has to be sent to prove that this was impossible. Baldwin’s hands were too burnt and cold to pull the pin from his CO2 bottle, and it has been suggested that in future this be provided with a thong.

FAO Elliott

I think that R7708 is from Sandwich flats…reading the copies of press releases that I have it seems to refer to the bay as this!!! It was found after Dave Brocklehurst (Kent Battle of Britain Museum) had been walking across the sands/mud at low tide looking for a Spitfire. He came across a prop sticking out the mud and knew it was too big for the spit so researched and came up with 7708.

Dave

609 Typhoon

I’ve scoured the books that I have and I think that it couldbe narrowed it down to 2 aircraft, assuming that this was an operational loss. As you say snapper there is DN560 P/O Baldwin 25/3/43. The books do not say that he ditched though what do the squadron records say? The other good possibility is JP745 PR-L. P/O T.S.Turek. He was picked up after ditching off the coast of Dieppe. The only inconsistency is that there were 2 days before he was picked up. Sydney Hansons account seems intially to indicate that it was after they landed that a phone call was received…however if you read it again you could think that it was a couple of days after the incident. Again snapper what do the squadron records have to say on this one?

Sandwich Flats…

Elliott,

Not sure if this area is referred to as Sandwich, not overly familiar. Give me a chance to dig my notes out tonight and I will let you know (are you referring to the Typhoon or Spitfire by the way?)

Dave – is that the one from sandwich flats?

609 Typhoons…

R7708 and Roy Payne were another one of those ditchings that weren’t really ditchings. According to Roys son he pulled up to about 600ft and bailed out, everyone who bails out got a badge from the parachute manufacturers in recognition that their product saved the pilots life and he still has this tucked away.

The wreckage was recovered in the late 90s, found by accident when looking for a Spitfire, with a remarkably complete Sabre Engine. The engine just looked as though the exhaust stubs were slightly bent. The wreckage was passed onto Peter Smith (has 2 Typhoon cockpit sections and lots of other parts) and even though there weren’t any particularly large parts of R7708 he is using this ID as one of his cockpit sections (EJ922 from Brownhills is the other section).

It’s already been recovered Ross.

First 4: (these are all I have typed up so far, not including the two already mentioned)

However the 2 No. 2’s (P/O’s Payne and Amor) left behind at Hawkinge, are scrambled to patrol Deal at 15000ft – intercept either the returning fighter bombers, or more likely the 30 off fighters (190’s and 109’s) which are supporting them in that area. Half way between Dover and Deal they see an a/c being fired at over the sea, and go to investigate. Before they can do so, however, Bofors and M/G open up on them from all directions, and on reaching the coast Payne announces that he is going to bale out. P/O Amor, unable to stop the gunfire despite every effort to identify himself, descends to 0ft and returns to Hawkinge, there to find he too has stopped a bullet. Later it is reported that P/O Payne has ‘walked ashore’, still later that he is in Margate Hospital with 2nd degree burns of hands and face. Feeling towards AA Command is not particularly friendly, especially as their actions have effectively prevented 609 from at last intercepting some Jerries, whose raid is the biggest one in daylight since the Battle of Britain.

At 1153 F/O Wells and Sgt Spallin are scrambled after a Dornier bombing Deal. Weather is 10.10 at 600ft, and it is raining. At Deal section is told to follow coast to Dungeness. Wells flies offshore, skirting Dover, then patrols up and down probably chasing his own plots. Spallin has disappeared, and soon it is learnt that he has hit a balloon cable at Dover, crashed into the water. It is thought he attempted to cut across Dover harbour instead of skirting it. Balloons were invisible, flying in cloud. Nothing is found but a patch of oil. Thus 609 has to record the loss of the 4th pilot of the year not due to enemy action. Spallin had been with the squadron since April, had become a reliable and enterprising pilot. “I have a lot of time for Spallin”, remarked his acting flight commander, F/O Wells, only the day before. Cheerful and obliging, he did much to make Canada popular in the eyes of both British and Belgians.

F/O Wells and Sgt Davis on morning patrol are told to go out to some anti-submarine vessels some 15 miles S of S Foreland, bandits being reported E of Dover. Near the boast Sgt Davis reports a dinghy. Telling his No 2 to remain as cover (message acknowledged) Wells goes down to investigate. As he approaches he sees a large splash on his port bow, and calling up Sgt Davis, receives no answer. It is later confirmed by Ops that he was almost certainly ‘jumped’ while orbiting. He was not seen to bale out.
Enemy Casualties: Nil
Our : 1 Typhoon Cat E – Sgt Davis missing, presumed killed.

No mention of F/O Evans accident

First to be airborne, at 1030, are Haddon and Wiseman. Concerning them the skipper of the MTB reports that he saw 2 Typhoons flying at 500 ft in line astern. 2 190’s converged to attack No 2, and the Typhoon went into the sea on fire. They then attacked No 1, cutting off both his wings, and this aircraft also went into the sea.

I’m thinking that Johnny Baldwin might be the one

Hi Snapper,

If 1942 is considered better to try R7708 on the 31st October 1942.

Ross

These went into the sea:

31 October 1942 R7708 PR V P/O Payne
Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by ‘Friendly Fire’, ditched in Pegwell Bay. Wreckage recovered in 199?

5th November 1942 R7818 PR Y W/O SpallinHawker Typhoon. Hit balloon cable at Dover. A/C crashed in Channel. Pilot posted as missing.

15th December 1942 R7689 PR B P/O Amor
Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by Uffz Josef Zirngible 1/JG26, 2 mls East of. Dover. Pilot killed. Body washed ashore.

15th December 1942 R8899 PR X Sgt Turek
Hawker Typhoon. Hit tree on Rhubarb to Roulers

23rd December 1942 R8837 Sgt Davis Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by Uffz Heinrich Schnell 2/JG26 1110 hrs 20 km north of Gris Nez. Crashed 15 mls south of North Foreland. Pilot killed

18th January 1943 R8898 PR F F/O Evans Hawker Typhoon. Take off accident at Bradwell Bay.

14th February 1943 R7872 PR S Sgt Wiseman Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by Fw190 of 3/JG2 over Straits of Dover 1100-1110 hrs. Pilot posted as missing.

14th February 1943 DN294 PR O F/Sgt Haddon Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by Fw190 of 3/JG2 over Straits of Dover 1100-1110 hrs. Pilot posted as missing.

2nd March 1943 DN300 PR W F/O Skett Hawker Typhoon. Damaged by flak

25th March 1943 DN560 PR R F/O Baldwin Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by Fw190 110 mls East of Ramsgate

1st April 1943 DN619 W/O Barker Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by flak 3 mls north of Dunkirk. Pilot posted as missing.

6th April 1943 DN416 PR P Sgt Van Zuylen Van Nyevelt Hawker Typhoon. Engine failure, ditched off Dover 12oo hrs. Pilot killed.

30th April 1943 R8883 PR K P/O Van Neste Hawker Typhoon. Dived into sea 3 mls east-south-east of Dover 0645 hrs. Pilot killed.

8th August 1943 JP390 PR J F/Lt Smith
Hawker Typhoon. Damaged by flak, ditched off Deal, Kent 1240 hrs.

20th September 1943 JP745 PR L P/O Turek Hawker Typhoon. Damaged by flak, ditched off Dieppe. Pilot rescued (2 days later)

26th September 1943 JP543 PR A P/O Demoulin Hawker Typhoon. Engine failure. Aircraft ditched. Pilot rescued.

4th January 1944 JR374 F/O Daix Hawker Typhoon. Ditched off Ostend, believed due to engine failure. Pilot posted as missing.

11th May 1944 MN496 F/O Soesman Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by flak near Caen. Ditched in Channel 1930 hrs. Pilot posted as missing.

11th May 1944 MN544 F/Lt Wood Hawker Typhoon. Shot down by flak off Cap D’Antifer. Pilot posted as missing.

609 Typhoons…

Snapper we may want to start with Eric Haarbjorn (not sure if I spelt his name correctly). He had a number of incidents where he had to ditch in the channel…he would have known how to ditch a Typhoon more than anyone else. I remember from last night that he had a couple around the French coast and was then picked up.

Will take a look tonight and see what I come up with.

As for Diving clubs…they are very suspicious if you simply go to them and ask if they have come across any aeroplanes (rightly so in my opinion…too many people that would not bat an eye to disturb a war grave). So until I have a specific area that I want to look at then I have refrained from contacting the divers.

That’s right. The mention of Lympne is from another paragraph. Therefore that widens the dates to anywhere from March 1942 onwards for this ditching. I’m going to sit down tonight with my lists and the ORB and check everyone of the buggers that went into the sea. Keep your fingers crossed. (Pints to keep me going may be sent by courier!).

Snapper
This is all that relates to this incident.

From page 45 of ‘Typhoon & Tempest at War’

…Another returning from a sweep over Europe, was seen by the rest of the formation to break away & go into the sea. Back at the mess, the other pilots were having a drink when the police rang to ask that arrangements should be made to collect our man. ‘his body ‘?, the police were asked. ‘No. he’s OK’ , they replied. It seemed that the Typhoon had been so though that it had not broken up on hitting the sea, but had sunk in one piece to the bottom, 50 feet down. The pilot had then released himself and floated to the surface in an air bubble, little the worse for his experience.

Agreed he looks to have returned the same day – but not neccesarily to Lympne, from the way I read it. Haven’t got the book with me at work, but can you copy out the entire piece relating to it please?

Roy Payne put his Tiffy into Pagham Harbour and walked ashore. That’s been recovered I believe.