Pr.20120 Nuclear Submarine?

Its too small for a low powered reactor. For a low energy density reactor, like HTGR or thermal gas reactors, you would need a much bigger sub, as the ratio of displacement vs. hydrodynamic drag favors large subs. Something of this size prefers a very high energy density reactor, and a liquid metal cooled reactor is the best bet if they want to quote something as revolutionary. Besides, this is something the Russians have good experience on, including a floating power plant. The Russians don’t have experience or any working example of a low energy density reactor like HTGR; that’s something the Chinese and the Japanese have direct experience on, as they are the only ones currently having working examples of.

From the specifications, it would appear that the Russians aren’t planning a small nuclear submarine, in a conventional sense, but are thinking in terms of a low powered reactor that would take the place of a fuel cell, closed cycle diesel or Stirling engine for AIP operations.

I suspect that is what the Sarov sub is. a revisit of the Alfa.

Of course they do experiment again with liquid metal coolant reactors. They even put one in service for civilian uses (I don’t remember which power plant it was, but it happened in 2006 somewhere in Central Russia). But the thing is not a revisited Alpha. It is
1) either a hoax / journalistic error (which becomes less and less likely by the day, because of the quite nervous and strange reaction from the Navy and Security services)
2) or (as the consensus lies now in Russia) a “special purpose” sub, i.e. a “autonomous submarine nuclear station” aka a GRU (mil. intelligence) sub. GRU subs (you know, the Paltusses, Loshariks, Kashalots etc. ) are not operated by the Navy, the Navy does not know anything about their missions and purposes actually, their commanders do not report to the Navy in any case and their crews and bases are a no-go area for Navy officials. Which explains why the Navy denies any knowledge (they don’t even have to lie).

First, the Russians did have “small” nuclear subs before that is powered by a “revolutionary” nuclear power plant. They had the Alfa class, which is even smaller and faster. It is powered by a very efficient liquid lead cooled nuclear reactor, that is actually quite safe (no one really died from it—just compare that to other Soviet reactor designs) but has a problem if the coolant solidified. Which meant that the reactor had to keep running even on the dock. Liquid lead’s density means it captures heat better, due to the far higher atomic cross section vs. water molecules, and acts as a radiation shield by itself. It does not have a radioactive isotope, and it does not explode like steam. Its danger is being poisonous when ingested and can be corrosive. But even then, liquid lead cools rather quickly and by solidifying, becomes its own safety control.

Despite the logistical issues of maintaining the reactor, the system did work despite the lower technology available then. And I think its worth revisiting the concept given the technology available now. I suspect that is what the Sarov sub is. a revisit of the Alfa.

10-17 knots don’t seem like a nuclear powered sub.
Even Rubis can manage over 25 knots…
Maybe just an AIP ship?

There have been reports that the Russians are intending on procuring a smaller class of SSN’s to supplement the SSBN’s and the larger SSN’s, could this be it?:confused:

I wonder if this “leak” was really accidental, or just meant to appear accidental?

I don’t think “Vlad” is shy about his country’s resurgent military power, do you?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/12/wrussia212.xml

Can anyone post the original press release?

First, the original Russian text:

Город Саров готов взять шефство над подводной лодкой «Саров»
Ист: Администрация г. Саров
Дата: September 6 2007

Командир подводной лодки «Саров», входящей в состав Северного Флота, капитан первого ранга Сергей Крошкин и капитан-лейтенант, командир БЧ-7 Юрий Губанов прибыли в Саров 6 сентября.

Основная цель трехдневного визита – обсуждение с руководством города и градообразующего предприятия возможности установления дружеских шефских связей между Саровом и личным составом одноименной подводной лодки.

– Пока «Саров» еще находится на стапелях Северодвинского завода, но главнокомандующий ВМФ поставил задачу завершить работы до конца года, – пояснил ситуацию Сергей Крошкин, вручая главе администрации Валерию Димитрову макет подводного корабля.

Дата торжественного спуска на воду еще не определена, но команда – 52 офицера и мичмана – уже сформирована, и ее основу составляют офицеры, служившие четыре года под командованием Сергея Владимировича Крошкина на лодке «Липецк».

– Думаю, что правильно будет к моменту торжеств, связанных с выходом новой лодки со стапелей, подготовить трехсторонний договор о шефстве Сарова и РФЯЦ-ВНИИЭФ над лодкой «Саров», – подытожил Валерий Димитров. – Нам выпала большая честь, ведь это первый случай, когда именем города, в котором проживает менее 100 тысяч человек, названа подводная лодка новейшего образца.

Для справки.

Торпедная подводная лодка проекта 20120 «Саров» имеет следующие характеристики:

– размеры 72,6 х 9,9 м,
– осадка 7 м,
– водоизмещение 2300/3950 т,
– глубина погружения 300 м,
– скорость 10/17 узлов.
– автономность 45 суток.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

And now the translation:

CITY OF SAROV READY TO ASSUME SPONSORSHIP OF SUBMARINE ‘SAROV’
Source: Sarov city administration
Date: 06 Sep 2007

Captain 1st Rank Sergei Kroshkin, the commanding officer of the submarine ‘Sarov’, which is subordinate to the Northern Fleet, and Captain-Lieutenant Yurii Gubanov, commander of BCh-7, arrived in Sarov on September 6.

The main goal of the three-day visit was to discuss with the leadership of the city and the city’s mainstay firm the possibilities of establishing friendly sponsorship ties between Sarov and the crew of the submarine bearing the same name.

“The ‘Sarov’ still remains on the slips of a Severodvinsk shipyard, but the Navy Commander-in-Chief has set forth the task of completing work by the end of the year,” explained Sergei Kroshkin, handing a model of the submarine to city administration head Valerii Dimitrov.

The date of the ceremonial launch has not been determined, but the crew – 52 officers and warrant officers – has already been formed, and its foundation are officers who served four years under Sergei Vladimirovich aboard the submarine ‘Lipetsk’.

“I believe it will be realistic to finalize a trilateral agreement for Sarov and the Russian Federation Nuclear Center/All-Russia Scientific Research Institute of Experimental Physics to sponsor the submarine ‘Sarov’ before ceremonies marking the roll-out of the new submarine occur,” Dimitrov summed up. “A great honor has befallen us, indeed the first instance when the name of a city, in which no less than 100,000 people live, has been given to a new type of submarine.”

Data:

The Project 20120 ‘Sarov’ torpedo submarine has the following characteristics:

– dimensions: 72.6 x 9.9 meters,
– draft: 7 meters,
– displacement: 2,300/3,950 tons,
– diving depth: 300 meters,
– speed: 10/17 knots,
– endurance: 45 days.

It sounds not as extremely small like the Rubis, which is already on the larger side of a conventional at 2500mt surface displacement