Can I hear some arguments what anti-radiation missile Sweden should get for the Gripen jet (this purchase is budgeted since 2000 but haven’t happened yet afaik) ? And is there any other alternatives except Harm/alarm? (Western products only)
What’s the status on HARM and ALARM development, cool/hot ? Oh and I’d like to hear not just what good a anti-radiation missile can do but is there any drawbacks in fielding and using such a weapon ?
What system would be most open to industrial cooperation, re-engineering etc… you know us Swedes can’t buy anything without also modifying it heh
😎
By: Arabella-Cox - 16th July 2006 at 05:37
The Kh-58 has an CEP of 20m I think..
Yes, quite right… I was thinking of the all weather dumb bomb delivery accuracy of the Su-24M.
20m CEP with a 150kg HE warhead is sufficient to ensure antennas are damaged and blown over and any missiles located nearby can be damaged too.
By: dionis - 15th July 2006 at 00:51
The Kh-58 has an CEP of 20m I think..
By: challenge - 12th July 2006 at 05:58
next generation of anti radiation missile will possess dual mode seeker,during the kosovo air war USAF and RAF fire hundred of anti radiation missiles against serb “radar”target it turn out much of target was decoy,One british army discovery large number discarded microwave oven in suppose “target rich” area ,the mocrowave oven can mimic E-F band radar,one was seen mounted in rotating mast.
By: SteveO - 11th July 2006 at 16:16
Sweden could go for the proposed anti-radar variant of the Meteor missile http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/meteor.htm
By: Arabella-Cox - 11th July 2006 at 06:16
Kh-58 has a longer range than that, IIRC?
It can fly 200km from a wild weasel Mig-25, but I doubt the Gripen will be flying at such heights of speeds to greatly extend its range in such a way. Figures are 120km for low level moderate speed launch (ie from Su-24s etc).
Basically because Russia is not important to the current Swedish defense industry
So a weapons purchase is a bribe or a political favour to you guys?
(Normally Sweden is not to cooperate with states at unsanctioned wars or w/ human rights issues but this is all rendered irrelevant when national security (defense industry) is stronger.)
So you say you have morals, but are prepared to put them aside when it suits you… Yup, that pretty much sounds like every other country in the world.
If you want to ignore Russian and Soviet weapons that is certainly your choice. The Kh-58 has a CEP of less than 50m, and unlike older models of HARM actually tries to physically locate the actual position of the emitting target so it can still do damage even if the target turns off.
But why equip your forces with good weapons when you can buy from dealers with hands as clean as the US or the UK…
By: Arabella-Cox - 8th July 2006 at 15:29
The Kh-31 has been fired from western aircraft as the MA-31.
By: Vympel - 8th July 2006 at 15:15
Why not buy Russian? The French army are buying Russian laser guided artillery shells. The Russians designed them to be compatible with NATO laser marking gear.
In the anti radiation range the Russians have a very broad spectrum of weapons, from the 300kg Kh-25 series with a range of 40km up to the 600kg Kh-31 with a range of 110km in the old version, plus the AS-11, also in the 600kg range with a 120km range.
Kh-58 has a longer range than that, IIRC?
Of course if you really have to spend the extra money and buy something from the west if you want an existing proven design then you can’t go past ALARM… unless the US choose to give you HARM for free.
The problem with HARM though is that it’s crap compared to stuff like ALARM in terms of intelligence and Kh-31 & Kh-58 in terms of range.
By: fightingirish - 8th July 2006 at 12:38
Some German AF students I taught a couple of weeks ago said that the Armiger was canceled.
PBAR
I asked at Flugzeugforum.de, and a member wrote back that the German Armed Forces have canceled the purchase of The ARMIGER. 🙁
So the program status is back to the shelves.
By: signatory - 7th July 2006 at 11:15
Why not buy Russian?
Basically because Russia is not important to the current Swedish defense industry and political issues like chechnya conflict or worries abt natural gas supplies can therefore not be overlooked like we overlook the US war on Iraq or Gitmo situation. Or other future situations.
(Normally Sweden is not to cooperate with states at unsanctioned wars or w/ human rights issues but this is all rendered irrelevant when national security (defense industry) is stronger.)
The only opening would be to transfer a full production license, this is done with the majority of US based products too so it’s not about hating Russia… Also they want weapons for NATO pylons. But now I don’t think we’re talking about any large number of missiles so our own production is not realistic .. I guess Alarm or HARM and the one which we will be allowed to upgrade could be a winner.
Some German AF students I taught a couple of weeks ago said that the Armiger was canceled.
ouch. 🙁
By: Pbar_b1bwso - 7th July 2006 at 06:17
Some German AF students I taught a couple of weeks ago said that the Armiger was canceled.
PBAR
By: Arabella-Cox - 7th July 2006 at 00:20
Why not buy Russian? The French army are buying Russian laser guided artillery shells. The Russians designed them to be compatible with NATO laser marking gear.
In the anti radiation range the Russians have a very broad spectrum of weapons, from the 300kg Kh-25 series with a range of 40km up to the 600kg Kh-31 with a range of 110km in the old version, plus the AS-11, also in the 600kg range with a 120km range.
Of course if you really have to spend the extra money and buy something from the west if you want an existing proven design then you can’t go past ALARM… unless the US choose to give you HARM for free.
By: signatory - 6th July 2006 at 20:18
The ARMIGER might be a solution for the Swedish Air Force.
Ah that looks promising. Didn’t know about this one.
Do you know when it will be operational ? Test fired yet?
Diehl BGT also buy the RBS 15 MK3 cruise missile from Sweden. Plus Sweden need a new long-range land attack missile for our next surface ships and cooperation there would be good too… there’s some talk about modifying either TAURUS or RBS 15 instead of a totally new design. Also we need a SAM system for the Navy and maybe our coop on IRIS-T can influence this decision.
Hmm.. maybe SAAB should just buy Diehl BGT 😎
By: fightingirish - 6th July 2006 at 18:35
ARMIGER
The ARMIGER might be a solution for the Swedish Air Force. I haven’t heard anything new about this missile in last two years (test launch etc.). It seems to be an expensive replace for the AGM-88, but in a industrial cooperation like with the EADS & Saab Bofors Dynamics Taurus KEPD 350 costs could be reduced.
The ARMIGER (Anti Radiation Missile with Intelligent Guidance & Extended Range) missile is being developed by the DIEHL BGT Defence to replace existing AGM-88 HARM missiles in the German Air Force by the end of the decade. It will be an advanced high supersonic missile intended to destroy modern and future air defenses through direct hit.
ARMIGER will feature an IR seeker, accurate Inertial Measurement Unit (INS) for navigational purposes, long range, high supersonic speed, reliability, and direct hit capability. Germany intends to provide the ARMIGER missile to other European air forces.
…
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July 6, 2006 at 4:31 pm