Question Time, BNP etc your thoughts

Yes I watched it…
yes I thought it became too much of a griffin-bashing show
no I dont support the BNP

but the BBC shouldnt be bashed for having him on either
it’s called freedom
as much as I dont like the BNP or Griffin, I will support his right to say what he does.
Then I’ll demolish his point of view by countering it in discussion

which is my right.

As for the immigration thing it’s simple to work out – this is a small country, already overcrowded – we cant take in any more.
But it’s interesting to read reports that New Labour deliberately allowed mass immigration….
doesnt surprise me – they did it to increase thier votes since the majority of people across the UK didnt vote for them at the last 3 elections.
New labour wants one thing above all else – power to control us.

and they will do anything to keep power.

I was interested to see that my MP (Lab,majority 37)was one of 13 MPs signing an early day motion condemning the BBC for allowing the BNP a platform and so conferring on it a (quote) spurious legitimacy.
Nothing spurious about a properly registered political party,surely ?
I’m not convinced Asians would actually vote for the BNP though.

I wish I had had my camera today as I was walking through St Helier at lunchtime, I saw a superb shot of two Kenyans buying their poppies from a Chelsea pensioner, and then walking up King St proudly displaying them.

We are, including Jersey, a multicultural country built on the backbone of migration over the centuries, some forced, other by invasion or as migrant work force. The indigenous peoples of the UK are a mongrel species as any DNA test would show.

Several points not yet mentioned: –
(1) The protesting crowd outside were all white. They assume that they can speak on behalf of the Black/Brown community, patronising them to the hilt. That in itself is pure racism. It’s the same crowd, they have a different set of banners. Unemployable pinko unwashed cowards not yet wise enough to realise what they are actually doing.
(2) The BNP successes come from towns where thare is a very very significant Asian population. A lot of those Asians must have voted BNP for the BNP to have a chance.
(3) The BBC has to give equal air time to the political parties at election time, as for question time there is no such “Right” but if it wants to keep its reputation as fair then it has to give air time to politicians, especially those with bona fide democratically elected seats in Yerp. However, it is now becoming clear that it was a stage managed sham to try and upstage the BNP. It may have been a success or not, I don’t care except for the fact the BBC is showing itself up as duplicious.
(4) The truth is that every person I know, know of, speak to or listen to is totally sick to the back teeth of the bogus asylum seekers, the non stop open door on immigration, the removal of british culture to allow minority cultures MORE rights than we ourselves have. Only the BNP is addressing these issues, the other parties dare not.
(5) The black guy in the audience told Straw that there was a serious problem with immigrants and he was ignoring it. If that’s not “Wake up and smell the coffee” time then I don’t know what is.
(6) If the above sounds supportive of Griffin, then maybe it is, or more like the support of a free speech democracy which allows his likes to have a say.
(7) My old fella sat with Monty. His old fella did his bit in WW1 and his old fella was very highly decorated in the Boar. All I can do is assist in making the Western weapons better than the ones the bad guys have got. I say that because my heritage has fought for freedom, that very same freedom presently being pi55ed away by the elected empty suits (And skirts). Much against all that has been fought for I vote for the party that pays me to do so. Whoever it is. The free speech society I desire is now so corrupted I am prepared to sell my vote and at least gain from it. I have done so twice, and obviously I cannot name the parties that paid me, present law makes it a no no.

We will just have to agree to disagree, Grey Area.

That’s fair enough. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

Yours is still wrong, though. :p

“I’m afraid I, for one, cannot agree.

It is clearly of the right, however hard you may wish it were otherwise.

That aside, do you think that Mr Griffin would agree with your description of his party as “national socialist” given his claim about being loathed by Nazis?”

We will just have to agree to disagree, Grey Area. As to your second point Naziism was a just one form of national socialism as was Franco’s and Mussolini’s.

A Jewish Nazi !!!! That would that be a first ? 😉

T’was the very first though that entered my head… 😮

may be not
“Abraham Gancwajch”

Not exactly a Nazi was he, more of a collaborator.

A Jewish Nazi !!!! That would that be a first ? 😉

may be not
“Abraham Gancwajch”

As regards Jack Straw’s Father being a “secret Nazi” perhaps you would care to ask the question of Mr. Straw himself? He can be contacted via the contacts icon on this website…..

Regards,

kev35

A Jewish Nazi !!!! That would that be a first ? 😉

The problem Louise is in the quote Nation and Race, don’t you think? Jack Straw’s Father was a conscientious objector, a man who held his own belief so strongly that he paid the price. Compare that with Mr. Griffin who now doesn’t know why he denied the Holocaust excepting that he must have changed his mind. Perhaps others heard his comment that it was to do with the question of numbers. As regards Jack Straw’s Father being a “secret Nazi” perhaps you would care to ask the question of Mr. Straw himself? He can be contacted via the contacts icon on this website…..

http://www.jackstrawmp.org.uk/

Please don’t forget to let us know how you get on.

The danger with the BNP is that whilst Mr. Griffin portrays himself, unintentionally, as a mindless, racist buffoon, others behind the scenes may be acting in a darker and more sinister manner.

Regards,

kev35

I think we can all agree that national socialism is not of the right but it might be of the left – or neither.

I’m afraid I, for one, cannot agree.

It is clearly of the right, however hard you may wish it were otherwise.

That aside, do you think that Mr Griffin would agree with your description of his party as “national socialist” given his claim about being loathed by Nazis?

And yes, I am a BNP supporter…..

We each have our cross to bear.

I wasn’t impressed by Greer either – why is a fiction writer in such a high position at the British Museum? And she spoke[B]a load of crap.

And Griffin didn’t

When asked why he had described the Holocaust as a myth:- “I cannot explain why I used to say those things, any more than I can tell you why I have changed my mind.” Probably because he was wrong

“I regard the BBC as part of a thoroughly unpleasant, ultra-leftist establishment which, as we have seen here tonight, doesn’t even want the English to be recognised as an existing people” But he is the leader of the “British” National Party

“I shared a platform with David Duke, who was once a member of the Ku Klux Klan, almost a totally non-violent one by the way.” almost non-violent, so they were violent

I am the most loathed man in Britain in the eyes of Nazis. Probably the only thing he said all night that wasn’t crap”

And yes, I am a BNP supporter and have been since the attack on London on 7th July 2005.

I don’t hold that against you, I pity you for your blind ignorance.

All of the above make my point. And definitions vary ambiguously from source to source.

I think we can all agree that national socialism is not of the right but it might be of the left – or neither.

The Merriam-Webster Online dictionary defines fascism as “a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.”

“Forcible suppression of opposition” – sounds just like the “peaceful” demonstrators from Unite Against Fascism (those “charming” people who were demonstrating outside the BBC to try and force the cancelling of Question Time filming).

I have to say I loved Nick Griffin’s swipe at Straw about Straw’s father refusing to go and fight against Nazis. Why was that? Was Straw’s father a secret Nazi or something? Straw came across very badly, and I wasn’t impressed by Greer either – why is a fiction writer in such a high position at the British Museum? And she spoke a load of crap – not all Europe was covered in ice at the last Ice Age – the south of Europe wasn’t, and it was from there, not sub Saharan Africa, that people moved from into the northern regions.

And yes, I am a BNP supporter and have been since the attack on London on 7th July 2005.

Ah, Mr Boyle, but you are talking about totalitarianism which is unique to neither the left nor to the right.

And to this extent, I do agree with you: the regimes that you mention did indeed share the charactericists of a totalitarian regime.

Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, all men of the left?
I think not.
Fascism, in its many manifestations, is about as far right as the right-wing gets.

Let me play devil’s advocate….
At some point, the two extreme forces will meet as if in a circle.

We can agree that the USSR-style communists are to the left.
-A quasi-police state…little or no opposition tolerated. -Spying on citizens.
-Central ownership of industries, making what the government wants.
-More effort/money put into “protecting the state” than most Western democracies.

With the exception of the industries were still privately owned, it sounds very much like Germany and Italy in WWII.

In other words, in practice for the average citizen (not political scientists)…they were alike.

That is the common misapprehension. National socialism is a complex ideology but might be characterised as socialism with an ugly face. Socialists believe in state control of the means of production, as do national socialists although national socialists oppose both capitalism, obviously and communism.

The diifficulty is that over years the labels of “left” and “right” have been misappropriated by a slovenly media so that opposing ideologies often end up with the same label.

National socialists are socialist in much the same way that the German Democratic Republic was a democracy.

It is simply perverse to insist, as you appear to, that fascism is an ideology of the left.

The Merriam-Webster Online dictionary defines fascism as “a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.”

The same source defines socialism as “1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.”

The difference between the two is marked and unambiguous.

I tend to agree about the left wing thing – Labour want to control every little thing you do,fortunately they are never in power long enough to completely manage it,they usually bankrupt the country first…seen it all before :rolleyes:
Historically the tories have a better record on personal freedom but of course they usually also get tripped up by their own political dogmas as well.
I guess historically – if you work for a living then you were slightly better off with the tories,slightly less tax etc
Both parties lost control of immigration years ago and they are to blame for letting the BNP get a toehold in politics.

Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, all men of the left?

I think not.

Fascism, in its many manifestations, is about as far right as the right-wing gets.

That is the common misapprehension. National socialism is a complex ideology but might be characterised as socialism with an ugly face. Socialists believe in state control of the means of production, as do national socialists although national socialists oppose both capitalism, obviously and communism.

The diifficulty is that over years the labels of “left” and “right” have been misappropriated by a slovenly media so that opposing ideologies often end up with the same label.