R-22 INS Viraat

Perhaps some VL units for Shtil could be dropped in to replace SA-N-1, remove and replace the 2 Peel group radars with 2×2 or 2×3 Orekh. Not sure that a Fregat radar is required, but if needed this could be mounted on one of the 2 main radar masts.

Fregat is surv/tracking radar for shtil which requires 3D radar for that purpose and dont think Star can be integrated into shtil. As for Fregat its quite large radar so i dont think it can be fitted in the masts without some structure changes, even if it can be it would quite a waste of money replacing Star or Lw-08 with fregat.
Anyway as you said its waste of money fiting in VL-shtil onto those vessels, barak alone is capable enough to provide the air defense. if IN orders three more Talwars i am betting that they will replace the first three rajputs.

Wanshan , I always believe that upgrades to existing old system like SA-N-1 is just a temporary solution , At best It would be a SA-N-1 on Steroids , The upgrade looks good on paper , but the fact remains that SA-N-1 are 60’s system which is facing a 21century threat , Low RCS Supersonic/subsonic Sea Skimming Missile , PGM and advanced aircraft .The Rajput class as very well maintained by the Navy , so it should serve atleast 10 to max 15 years in the Navy.

If it is cost effective , They should think about plugging Shtil-1 system in to it , Shouldnt be a problem replacing the Head Net 3D radar with a Half or Top Plate and Orekh FCR That kind of upgrade shoud make the Rajputs/Ranvijay a potent ship for Air/Surface/Sub Surface threat for many years to come.

I already suggested VL Shtil. Still I think upgrading current missile system is best solution, esp. considering Barak as back-up. Better to save some money now to invest in brand new ships later.

Wanshan , I always believe that upgrades to existing old system like SA-N-1 is just a temporary solution , At best It would be a SA-N-1 on Steroids , The upgrade looks good on paper , but the fact remains that SA-N-1 are 60’s system which is facing a 21century threat , Low RCS Supersonic/subsonic Sea Skimming Missile , PGM and advanced aircraft .The Rajput class as very well maintained by the Navy , so it should serve atleast 10 to max 15 years in the Navy.

If it is cost effective , They should think about plugging Shtil-1 system in to it , Shouldnt be a problem replacing the Head Net 3D radar with a Half or Top Plate and Orekh FCR That kind of upgrade shoud make the Rajputs/Ranvijay a potent ship for Air/Surface/Sub Surface threat for many years to come.

sa-n-1 is decent its comparable to the early sea dart, there was plans to upgrade it with wonder what happened. As for replacing it with shtil fiting in the launcher shouldnt be a problem but fiting in fregat and orekh will be a hassle. Probably be simpler to just fit in more barak instead.

isnt INS rajput close to 25 yrs old most russian vessels in IN arsenal havent been operational longer than that?

Perhaps some VL units for Shtil could be dropped in to replace SA-N-1, remove and replace the 2 Peel group radars with 2×2 or 2×3 Orekh. Not sure that a Fregat radar is required, but if needed this could be mounted on one of the 2 main radar masts.

However, there are upgrades available for the S-125 (NATO: SA-3 Goa) that may also be suitable for the SA-N-1. Russia, China, Poland and Ukraine all offer improvement packages for the system, while a Yugoslav upgrade and overhaul package incorporating digital sub-systems including digital MTI (moving target indication) is marketed for export by Yugoimport-SDPR. Improving performance rather than replacing the system may be more cost effective.

There is currently an upgrade available from Poland known as the Newa SC. Basically all the systems have digital elements added to them to improve both the reliability and capability, there is a modern IFF system added and datalinks are added to allow the system to take input from modern airdefence nets.

Since 2000, the Russians decided to modernize the obsolete S-125 system to make it more attractive to customer nations. The initial SA-3 upgrade, called “Pechora-2”, features a new radar and a new engine, resulting in a bigger engagement evelope. The S-125 Pechora-2M, as the upgrade became known, featured a new booster, an improved radar fuse, a longer range (27 kilometers), an increased kill probability, better resistance to jamming, and the ability to engage multiple targets. It also had an increased capability against cruise missiles, as witnessed in 2003 when the Pechora-2M was tested against the medium-range Strizh-2 and the low-altitude Strizh-3 target missiles.

The Pechora-2M upgrade carried on the process of replacing old components with modern upgrade equivalents. In this upgrade the folowind system parts are changed. Specifically
1) a new Laser/IR tracker is added to the guidance system allowing the main radar to remain quiet during the engagement.
2) Analogue components are replaced with their digital equivalents
3) Coax cables are replaced with fibre.
4) More powerful boosters.
5) New RF fuse for warhead.
6) New warhead.

INS Ranvir and/or Ranvijay.

As on the Delhi, two AK-630s and the associated Bass Tilt radars have been replaced by the Baraks and two STGRs.

As with the upgraded P15s, the Head Net gets replaced by the STAR and the Big Net by the RAWL. Have’nt seen the latter itself.

isnt INS rajput close to 25 yrs old most russian vessels in IN arsenal havent been operational longer than that?

Many of the earlier ships did show some degradation in their material state before decommissioning. There are no plans to let any Rajputs go, for now.

Ok, one of the newest pair of Rajput class, that makes sense. Was wondering about that, since the oldest Rajput – the first of class – was used as trials platform for Brahmos.

RAWL was already already mounted on the IN Kashin (053 INS Ranjit) that visited Shanghai, November 11, 2003. There was a nice thread on this over at CDF (“Indian navy visit to shanghai”)

… it almost sounds like the IN is installing different portions of an upgrade on different Kashins (Bhramos<>Rajput, RAWL<>Ranjit, Barak<> Ranvir and/or Ranvijay)…

The Rajput class are maintained well by the Navy , she should serve the Navy for another decade before she gets decommisioned , This is probably the last major upgrade she will see .

I wonder if the Navy has something follow on to the P-15A , to replace the Ranvijay/Rajputs may be a P-18/P18A , or its quite possible that the Navy may move towards Standard Frigates , ending the era of Destroyers .

On which Rajput class ship? Rajput itself (trials ship?) or one of her newer sisters? Sounds like the installation is similar to that on Delhi class.

Were any AK 230s or 630s removed? If yes, then using surplus AK630s from the last two Rajputs and from Delhi’s, the entire class could get AK630s and there would still be some left to put on e.g. Godavari class as replacement for AK230 (would this effort be worth it in terms of improved firepower relative to cost/effort involved)

Am I correct to assume that the EL/M-2238 STAR Surveillance & Threat Alert Radar has been mounted atop the forward main mast, replacing russian Head Net-C. I saw pictures of Rajput class ship with Bharat RAWL (Dutch Signaal LW08) instead of Russian Big Net-A radar. Will this be the new (all non-russian) radar fit for the Rajput class then? Identical to INS Ganga radar suite after refit.

Have EL/M-2221 STGR – Search, Track & Guidance/Gunnery Radar replaced the Drum/Bass Tilt gunnery fire control radars on that particular Rajput class ship and, if yes, have they been mounted in a similar – more outward – location as on Delhi class?

The Rajput class are only marginally older than the Godavaris, which have been updated with Barak and new radars. So it would not surprise me if Kashins remain around for some time, refitted.

INS Ranvir and/or Ranvijay.

As on the Delhi, two AK-630s and the associated Bass Tilt radars have been replaced by the Baraks and two STGRs.

As with the upgraded P15s, the Head Net gets replaced by the STAR and the Big Net by the RAWL. Have’nt seen the latter itself.

isnt INS rajput close to 25 yrs old most russian vessels in IN arsenal havent been operational longer than that?

Many of the earlier ships did show some degradation in their material state before decommissioning. There are no plans to let any Rajputs go, for now.

sa-n-1 is decent its comparable to the early sea dart, there was plans to upgrade it with wonder what happened. As for replacing it with shtil fiting in the launcher shouldnt be a problem but fiting in fregat and orekh will be a hassle. Probably be simpler to just fit in more barak instead.

Don’t think the Kashins are going to be retired anytime soon.

isnt INS rajput close to 25 yrs old most russian vessels in IN arsenal havent been operational longer than that?

Yes , and I think thats the way to go Head Net & Big Net are quite old and needs replacement , The MLU of Rajput looks good , But some one should consider replacing those old dual arm SA-3 Goa with some thing more effective , may be a single arm Shtl-1 could me retrofitted.

I wonder in todays scenerio how effective these SA-3 are , nor do i think they received any upgrades.

The Barak is confirmed (as in actually seen) fitted (with the Elta STAR) on at least one Rajput. There are 32 cells and the pairs of 8 cell VLS are perpendicular to each other, installed just in front of the aft Peel group radar. Don’t think the Kashins are going to be retired anytime soon.

On which Rajput class ship? Rajput itself (trials ship?) or one of her newer sisters? Sounds like the installation is similar to that on Delhi class.

Were any AK 230s or 630s removed? If yes, then using surplus AK630s from the last two Rajputs and from Delhi’s, the entire class could get AK630s and there would still be some left to put on e.g. Godavari class as replacement for AK230 (would this effort be worth it in terms of improved firepower relative to cost/effort involved)

Am I correct to assume that the EL/M-2238 STAR Surveillance & Threat Alert Radar has been mounted atop the forward main mast, replacing russian Head Net-C. I saw pictures of Rajput class ship with Bharat RAWL (Dutch Signaal LW08) instead of Russian Big Net-A radar. Will this be the new (all non-russian) radar fit for the Rajput class then? Identical to INS Ganga radar suite after refit.

Have EL/M-2221 STGR – Search, Track & Guidance/Gunnery Radar replaced the Drum/Bass Tilt gunnery fire control radars on that particular Rajput class ship and, if yes, have they been mounted in a similar – more outward – location as on Delhi class?

The Rajput class are only marginally older than the Godavaris, which have been updated with Barak and new radars. So it would not surprise me if Kashins remain around for some time, refitted.

The Barak is confirmed (as in actually seen) fitted (with the Elta STAR) on at least one Rajput. There are 32 cells and the pairs of 8 cell VLS are perpendicular to each other, installed just in front of the aft Peel group radar. Don’t think the Kashins are going to be retired anytime soon.

What is the current status of the IN Harrier Fleet?

15 FRS.51 (plus 1 in repair, status unknown), 2 T.60, 2 T.4(I). Trainers operated by INAS-551B.

BTW, what happened to my request??

Also, are the Harriers going to get that ghost grey scheme?? and from the pages its sure that the ‘elite’ is gonna fly the Harriers which means the 15 of them are gonna fly which means that the MiG-29K are gonna get new pilots?? and if yes, are they be the ‘unemployed’ MiG-21 pilots??… also when is the Navy going to make new sqadrons as i think thats something inevitable.

I don’t understand what you’re asking?

The training for the MiG-29K pilots will be similar to SHAR training. No, the better rated ones will not go to SHARs.

Barak already on Rajput class????!! Or merely projected to be?

its rumoured to have been fitted on two rajputs, dont know if IN wants to fit them on first three since they will be retired soon.

Great work, Harry. I’m so glad Hermes is still defending the free world after all these years 😀

Barak already on Rajput class????!! Or merely projected to be?

Very Very nice mate, thanks for the contribution. What is the current status of the IN Harrier Fleet?

R-22 INS Viraat

Harry Bhai, Simply superb one, enjoyed it, but also disapointed to see no image of the Hanger from the port side lift ‘while going down’ which wud have given a good look at the length and space inside the hanger. I must point out that u have somewhere writted (typo error) P-16 as Delhi class. Another being I got confused after reading abt the ghost-greay camo, as somewhere (if am not wrong) u have attributed the same to the dark grey scheme, in visual aircombat. PLease do correct me..

BTW, what happened to my request??

Also, are the Harriers going to get that ghost grey scheme?? and from the pages its sure that the ‘elite’ is gonna fly the Harriers which means the 15 of them are gonna fly which means that the MiG-29K are gonna get new pilots?? and if yes, are they be the ‘unemployed’ MiG-21 pilots??… also when is the Navy going to make new sqadrons as i think thats something inevitable.

8 cell per box?

So, each box has 8 cells correct?

do you know where I can find an aerial view with detail of the Barak VLS on Godavari?

TIA
Ayala Botto
Lisbon, Portugal

do you have photos of the Brahmaputra and Godavari frigates with Barak cells?

The triple boxes just aft of the Styxes are the Barak VLS,

http://www.acig.org/exclusives/viraat/PICS/escort_f22.jpg

Excellent! 🙂