RAF Lossiemouth demolishing two 1938/9 K-type hangars

No, they are still in their hangar nearest the Drainie Road…

Have the Sea Kings moved out?

New thread started for the WW2 hangar damage here…
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=99923

This was taken around 10:00 am this morning…

… and it was totally demolished by lunchtime!

Oops. I think I’ve mislaid a red herring somewhere. Didn’t leave it lying around here did I?

There were certainly cannon-equipped He 111H-3 and H4 variants operating from bases in Denmark and Norway at the time…
http://www.rafandluftwaffe.info/

Some text (same as above post) and photos from ‘Steep Turn to the Stars’ is attached to the inside hangar wall beside the damage, attributing the holes to the Heinkel attack of the 26th October 1940, so the RAF obviously think it was done then…

Are we sure these 111’s didn’t have a cannon?

http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/Heinkel%20He%20111.htm

The He 111H-2 which became available in the autumn of 1939 had Jumo 211A-3 engines and carried two additional MG 15 machine-guns, one in the nose and one in the ventral gondola, and the He 111H-3 introduced armour protection and armament comprising a 20-mm MG FP cannon and an MG 15 in the ventral gondola, two MG 15s in the nose, one dorsally mounted, and similar weapons in beam positions. The He 111H-4 introduced Jumo 211D-1 engines and was equipped with two external racks to carry a 3,968 lbs (1800 kg) bombload that could include two 1,686 lbs (765 kg) differed only by having increased fuel capacity.

Edit, ahh just noted post #38.

A 20mm cannon ought to be able to make a pretty big hole in 1/2″ plate, even two layers I’d wager.

Some text (same as above post) and photos from ‘Steep Turn to the Stars’ is attached to the inside hangar wall beside the damage, attributing the holes to the Heinkel attack of the 26th October 1940, so the RAF obviously think it was done then…

[QUOTE=Al;1572914]
StuartH’s theory that the station 20mm Hispano or 40mm Bofors AA was the culprit may not be too far from the truth! I wonder if anyone inside the hangar was hurt?

/QUOTE]

Interesting update, thanks.

The story of the origins of these holes is not a mystery or wasn’t a few years back and was explicitly attributed to a raiders fire and not ground fire.

The station liasson office at Lossie should be able to lay his hands on the facts, as you say a HE111 is unlikely to be the culprit, though a Ju88 at at least had a cannon.

Photos later, but I had a close look at 202 Sqn’s hangar 21 (the K-type nearest Drainie road) this morning, and the door nearest the road does indeed have lots of bullet or shell holes, from the ground to the roof.
The door is made from ½” steel plate bolted to both sides of a steel frame, and the rounds have penetrated both sides, leaving both entrance and exit holes around 40mm diameter. The outer doors have been patched by bolting on small thin sections of square steel plate.
It’s hard to imagine the usual 1940 He-111 armament of MG15 or MG17 7.92mm machine guns doing this sort of damage, even if they used their armour-piercing rounds. These rounds were capable of penetrating 10mm steel plate at 100 metres if fired at right angles – but two plates?
StuartH’s theory that the station 20mm Hispano or 40mm Bofors AA was the culprit may not be too far from the truth! I wonder if anyone inside the hangar was hurt?

Here’s a transcript of the incident from ‘A Steep Turn to the Stars’:-
‘On 26th October Lossiemouth received its baptism of fire when three Heinkel 111s made a surprise dusk attack on the airfield. Two Heinkels came in low from the north east and bombed a line of Blenheims which were being prepared for night flying. A third Heinkel attacked from the south using machine guns but no bombs. One of the Heinkels crashed, brought down either by the explosion of its own bombs or the station Hispano gun. Like many similar incidents the exact circumstances will never be known. The four German crew were killed and are buried in Lossiemouth churchyard. The RAF losses were one officer and two airmen killed and others injured. Two Blenheims were destroyed and three damaged, and damage was also incurred by two Magisters, two Moths, and a Hurricane. Three hangars were slightly damaged…’

I understand that another hangar (used by 2622 Sqn) at Lossie still has the MU bore-sighting paintings for Spitfires, Hurricanes, Defiants, and Mohawks. I can feel another visit coming on!

Incidentally, the other K-type just to the north was completely demolished just this morning – photos later…

I’m pretty sure these holes are of ‘cannon’ calibre. IIRC I’d be surprised if a 7.62 would penetrate the plate I saw.

Was there any Ju 88 raids on Lossie, they had cannons didn’t they?

From Wikipedia

Armament

Guns:

up to 7 × 7.92 mm MG 15 or MG 81 machine guns, some of them replaced or augmented by
1 × 20 mm MG FF cannon (central nose mount or forward ventral position)
1 × 13 mm MG 131 machine gun (mounted dorsal and/or ventral rear positions)

Martin

This is from the RAF website history diaries…
‘Wick: At 1800 hours 5 HE bombs were dropped, 2 falling on the Aerodrome and 3 nearby demolishing several houses and causing 15 civilian casualties, 3 of which were killed. The attack was made by two He111s flying very low and flashing correct recognition signals. One hangar was hit and a Hudson aircraft burnt out, two others being damaged, and another hangar was also damaged.
Lossiemouth: The Aerodrome was attacked at 1830 hours by two enemy aircraft approaching from the sea at 100 feet and a third from the West of the Aerodrome. Bombs were dropped on the edge of the landing ground and one Blenheim was burnt out, two others being damaged. One He111 crashed, and it is believed that this was due to the explosion of its own bombs. The casualties reported are 2 dead and 12 wounded.’

There is a report in the local paper’s archives of a Ju-88 crashing in Lossiemouth town, which was part of another raid. The man of the house saw it coming, legged it out of a window before the bomber demolished his home, and killed his wife and kids.
Lucky escape, I’d say….

Amazingly quick witted – saw a german bomber coming, and still had time to kill the wife and kids!

We need people like that in the gene pool.

Hadn’t heard about any other raids on Lossie apart from the October 1940 He 111 raid. Perhaps over enthusiastic AA fire?

No, definitely German shells, the origins are not a mystery, just I can’t recall the full details of the specific raid or aircraft.

Any idea when? I’ll look it up sometime

There is a report in the local paper’s archives of a Ju-88 crashing in Lossiemouth town, which was part of another raid. The man of the house saw it coming, legged it out of a window before the bomber demolished his home, and killed his wife and kids.
Lucky escape, I’d say….

Hadn’t heard about any other raids on Lossie apart from the October 1940 He 111 raid. Perhaps over enthusiastic AA fire?

Saw that.

By the way, Lossiemouth lighthouse got shot up as well. Don’t think He 111s carried cannon though. 7.62mm machine guns?

I’m pretty sure these holes are of ‘cannon’ calibre. IIRC I’d be surprised if a 7.62 would penetrate the plate I saw.

Was there any Ju 88 raids on Lossie, they had cannons didn’t they?

Just amke sure that if you pack aircraft into a small space that it is strong enough in heavy snow..
http://www.highglide.co.uk/hangar_collapse.htm

Saw that.

Haven’t flown there for some years, but very happy memories of many hours in several of those aircraft.

It was like a chinese puzzle, packing them in the hangar sideways on trolleys with inches to spare. Marks on the floor where wingtips went, and support to ensure that if a tyre went flat, wings wouldn’t crush canopies.

Lots of bonded warehouses collapsed too. Ice in your whisky?

By the way, Lossiemouth lighthouse got shot up as well. Don’t think He 111s carried cannon though. 7.62mm machine guns?

I heard today that the hangar area is probably earmarked for the location of the new ATC tower, so ATC can see both ends of the runway. The old 1940s tower has to be demolished too, as part of the contract, it seems…
http://www.tendersdirect.co.uk/ourservice/TenderView.aspx?ID=%20000000002784080&sect=A057&cat=301

That’s sad to hear, price of progress I s’pose.