I’ve just finished a book about aerial photo reconnaissance. Towards the end of the book it describes encounters between unarmed Spitfire and Mosquito aircraft and Me262’s and Me163’s.
An unarmed Mosquito, at 33,000 feet over Leipzig, Germany, was attacked by five Me163’s. The Mossie rolled into a dive and headed for the deck. The pilot – Pilot Officer Hayes, afterwards estimated that he reached a speed of 650mph in the dive ! Without pulling the wings off.
He lost the 163’s in the course of the dive but, in flattening out, came under a failed attack from a Me109. The Mosquito was hit by ack-ack but, returned to base successfully albeit the undercarriage collapsing on landing.
A speed of 650mph is quite astonishing given that the Mosquito was light eg. without weaponry and armour. Does anyone know the maximum designed positive and negative airframe stressing for a Mosquito?
By: PeterVerney - 3rd March 2015 at 10:16
Re knots/mph, i believe the changeover took place sometime about 1945
By: Moggy C - 1st March 2015 at 08:38
Great picture Propstrike, thank you for posting that.
Moggy
By: Propstrike - 28th February 2015 at 23:23
A more contemporary view (2009)
Just across the Thames opposite the hotel is a grassy meadow where Lysanders and other STOL machines would set down, and the film would be taken across by rowing boat for development
By: Project-9699 - 28th February 2015 at 09:42
RAF Medmenham Connections to RAF Wethersfield
RAF Medmenham became the Ministry of Defence Police Training School, which moved to RAF Wethersfield, I worked at both and still run the Museum at the latter.
The intelligence photos from Medmenham generated the target orders for the 416th Bomb Group at Wethersfield.
A photo of RAF Medmenham, the The house is Danesfield now a hotel. George Clooney who filmed Monuments Men at Duxford (I took Dave Andrews there when they were filming) George had his English wedding at this hotel, and as most of you will know Dirk Bogarde worked here during the WW2.
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By: Project-9699 - 28th February 2015 at 09:33
I don’t know about that speed, but i know a man i can ask, see and listen to 1st Lt Dave Andrews A20G Havoc pilot WW2 with 416th Bomb Group at RAF Wethersfield. iff the link does not work go to www.witnesstp war.org and in the search bar put dave andrews. Dave talks about his first encounter with a Mosquito.
Dave is 93 still flies and has been over for D Day the last 2 years.
http://www.witnesstowar.org/search_result
I think the link takes you to Daves page and his 9 stories. He mentions me in story 7 about his brakes, I actually have photos and film of that incident. and in one of the fatal accidents he talks about someone has just offered me the pilots wings (badge) found in that field for the museum.
By: scrooge - 26th February 2015 at 21:08
Having edited my post above, I’ll also add that the initially mentioned 650mph works out to 565kts. Waaaaay off the dial.
By: Graham Boak - 26th February 2015 at 20:23
I believe it was mph, but am not certain. However, I was used to working in knots so introduced the term accidentally. Given the uncertainties involved, I don’t think it matters too much.
By: scrooge - 26th February 2015 at 20:09
Are the ASI’s in a wartime Mosquito in MPH or Kts? both units are being used in this thread. A picture I have of KA114 has the ASI up to 500 MPH. 1kt=1.15mph so that gives an ASI indication of: 435kts.
By: PeterVerney - 26th February 2015 at 19:48
The last number on the clock was 40, i.e. 400 knots, so no doubt a bit of artistic licence
By: Graham Boak - 26th February 2015 at 17:02
The critical Mach Number of a Mosquito will be around 0.8 Mach, as it depends upon the wing thickness. 480 knots sound about right – in the right region certainly. Such high values of airspeed were commonly recorded in dives in the late 40s, due to local shockwaves forming over the pitot probe or on the fuselage near the static hole and resulting in large pressure errors. This resulted in many claims for supersonic or very high transonic speeds by various aircraft, notable the Me262, Lightning, and even the Ventura (though I’d like to see even the anecdotal evidence for that one!). None of these aircraft were actually capable of reaching such speeds because of the rapid increase in drag above Mcrit. The Spitfire is usually quoted as the only wartime aircraft to truly exceed 0.9M, because of its very thin wing (wide chord narrow depth).
By: Moggy C - 26th February 2015 at 16:25
Easy question to answer.
Does a Mosquito ASI read up to 650MPH?
Moggy
By: John Green - 26th February 2015 at 16:04
It begs the question, which account is accurate ?
Does anyone know if it is possible for a Mossie to reach the 650mph mentioned without disintegrating?
I know that there are at least two recorded instances of Spitfires reaching I believe, slightly more than that speed in a dive.
By: John Green - 26th February 2015 at 15:45
Re 2
pogno
The name Hays appears to be correct but, the book gives his rank as Pilot Officer not Flying Officer.
By: John Green - 26th February 2015 at 15:43
“Spies in the Sky”, Taylor Downing, published 2011 by Little, Brown.
Page 315.
Pilot Officer Hays reported being attacked by first two 163’s, followed by a further three. Hays rolls into a dive which he estimates is 650mph. He is then attacked by a 109 – unsuccessfully, hit by flak, his navigator is wounded, he then flies for nearly two hours to the nearest base in France. After the landing, Hays walked away unhurt.
A truly remarkable story.
By: Sabrejet - 26th February 2015 at 15:12
Five Me-163s sounds a bit unlikely too.
By: pogno - 26th February 2015 at 15:05
John
I think 650mph unlikely, reports state 480mph assuming its Flg. Off. R. M. Hays.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Gx85T-eYPdQC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=flg+off+r+m+hays+mosquito&source=bl&ots=Y1NXXShwXz&sig=HNzMmsBTxRb58_YIOV53wo-oK6s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=azXvVNDdJc-UaoPVgPgJ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=flg%20off%20r%20m%20hays%20mosquito&f=false
Richard
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February 26, 2015 at 12:35 pm