RAF Roundels

Hi Mark 12,

Great pic!

However I stand by my comments. The codes on the new paint job do not look ‘right’ and do not look exactly like the ones on the original pic you posted. I am being rather precise but when you have a original scheme to copy and photographic evidence you can affford to be.

Not all American collectors are guilty of the gloss paint crime. When myself and and an associate re-painted the Fighter Factory Spitfire IX last November our suggestion of semi-matt paint and a full set of original stencils was welcomed.

Agreed

Absolutely agree with you on the worn colour scheme Mark12.

For me, the finest paint scheme in the world is the Shuttleworth Mk V after a couple of years use – chipped leading edges and spinner, exhaust staining that has been cleaned, and general weathering of the airframe (oils stains, discolouring etc).

This takes the aircraft to wartime service.

Mk V,
As you can see from the period print attached the codes are OK.
I would have preferred to see the “Dorothy II’ logo that Bill Harpur carried on the port engine cowl of his TB886/AU-J.
Gloss, semi gloss or pure matt is a personal choice but for me the oiled and grubby patina of pure matt after a couple of years weathering is perfection. We are never going to convince our North American brothers on this and as Spencer Flack said of his Red Spitfire…….etc.
Yes I preferred the Blue JMR scheme.
Regards, Mark12

Hi Mark 12,

many thanks for posting the pic of SL721.

Unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, the codes look very strange (big and thin and curvy!) and there is a very prominent and unfortunate gloss sheen to the whole aircraft. I think I prefer it blue. Any comments?

DHFAN.. heres the BBMF Spit in SEAC colours..

Hmm! Puzzled why the image is so large. Let me try again

Mark V
Attached is a low res shot by ERIC DUMIGAN of SL721 taken at Buttonville, Ontario, on the 3rd of June this year.
Bob Swaddling, a noted modeller, camped out at the spray shop to oversee the application. A lot of thought, discussion and preparation went into getting 100%. They used the Vickers works drawings. I would be doubtful if the colours were off.
Regards,
Mark12

I’m sure somebody posted a pic of a Spit in SEAC colours with the small white/blue roundel on the forum recently.
One of the BBMF ones, perhaps?

Hi Mark 12,

My reference was purely regarding the roundels, could not possibly comment on the codes.

Do you have any leads on a photo of SL721? I saw a very small shot of her in the hangar at Sky Harbour and the paint looked a very strange colour. This could have been an effect of the photography however.

By the way Guzzineil, yes indeed, red was definitely unwelcome as it gave the impression of a japanese aircraft.

thanks for all that chaps…

on a related point, is it correct that the a/c operating in the far East used the ‘2 tone’ Blue roundels so as they weren’t confused with the Japanese ‘rising sun’… seems logical..

Well almost.
Be nice to see it as JEJ in front of the roundel on both sides, as his original XIV, rather than this JE-J and J-EJ
Incidentally SL721, fresh from the paint shop having lost it’s blue scheme, is now in late war livery with the yellow ring roundels top and bottom of the wing.

Moondance,

You are absolutely spot on! Have lots of house points.

A more up to date reference is, of course, the TFC Spitfire XIV (low back) currently in the late Johnnie Johnsons markings.

Spitfire T.9 PV202/G-TRIX was painted in a 2 TAF colour scheme (VZ-M of 412 Sqn) when first restored. C1 roundels were featued above AND below the wings, no sky rear fuselage band, plus black spinner.

Hi All,

I seem to recall that the yellow could be seen 5 miles away. I’ll try & find the article. It was only a couple of weeks ago, so I should be able to find it.

I thought this was an interesting print, as I’ve never seen type C1 roundels on the wing of an aeroplane, before. Picture comes from the recently published Combat Colours, No.6 (no need to tell which aeroplane :p )

Cheers,
Neilly

The ‘A’ roundel of the early war years featured the colours in roughly equal proportions. During early 1942 a re-appraisal took place, concluding that they were much too conspicuous, especially on night flying aircraft. Hence the introduction of the ‘C’ roundel with much thinner white & yellow bands. The fuselage roundel (with the narrow outer band) was the ‘C1’ type. C & C1 roundels were also used on the upper wings of aircraft operating with 2 TAF within Europe in 1945.

Robertson does comment that during the time it was an equal sized yellow band that was indeed the most visible part of the roundel.

So for a while the British National Insignia was effectively a yellow circle.

Moggy

Hiya,

I also read recently, that the yellow band could been seen at far greater distances than the red, white & blue. Don’t know how true this is?

Cheers,
Neilly

When the bright aircraft finishes of the 1930s changed to camouflage 1937-8 the roundels did not stand out well against the green, brown or black of the aircraft.

At first it changed to an equal sized band of yellow around the outside. The yellow was very conspicuous and was dropped for the uppersurfaces along with the white central band. (March 1939)

By December 1939 there was a comprimise where standard roundels with a yellow outlining appeared on the fuselage sides, red and blue roundels on the upper surfaces.

Through the war there was a proliferation of roundel types and sizes matching the roles and background colour ot the aircraft.

The move away from any yellow outlining came in 1947.

Moggy

Abstracted by and large from ‘Aircraft Camouflage & Markings 1907-1954’ Bruce Robertson