RAF's first use of a guided weapon?

Photo that I took of Cosford’s Henschel 293 last year, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_293

Should have read the whole thread before posting however, as I ‘ve just noted that its already been mentioned.

Er anyone got a spare pair of glasses knocking around??? 😀 Bex

I’ll get me coat…….. forgot the goats ate it…… D’oh

The RAF were the first to sink a naval craft by a guided device as stated previously. The Luftwaffe first success was on the 27 August 1943 when the 40th Escort Group RN comprising two Destroyers and three small sloops was attacked by Dornier 217 E-5’s of KG-100 which split into three groups and launched seven Henschel 293 A1 glider bombs at the sloop HMS Egret which shot the first down, five missed and the last hit the munition store which exploded and the vessel sank with all hands. Information extracted from the book ‘DO 217-317-417 An Operational Record’ by Manfred Griel. Published by Airlife 1991.

Henschel 293 was a boost/sustain/coast weapon as it was rocket powered at launch (had two rocket motors if memory serves, one to get the weapon away from the launching aircraft (mounted below the weapon) and a short burning sustainer (in the tail) to allow some stand off between the launching aircraft and the target. It used the same guidance equipment as Fritz X and was defeated by the same ‘MAS’ jamming equipment fitted to most RN and USN ships as soon as we found out how both the German systems worked. There were two versions of the 293 that never entered service, which pointed the way for guided weapons. One was wire guided, while the other used a simple TV system in the nose with a data link to the launcher (just like the TV MARTEL used on the Buccaneer).

P.s: Bigvern, that was a good one tho 😀

Should have read the whole thread before posting however, as I ‘ve just noted that its already been mentioned.

If you’re interested in how missiles work, this might be of interest to you.

http://jetstream-club.org/Training.wav 😀

Like Lee Harvey Oswald, one of them killed a Kennedy (Joe Kennedy Jr). He was in the crew of one which exploded in flight before he could bail out in late 1944.

Hmm ok perhaps I sorta walked into this one head on, perhaps I should have something along the lines of “Ive never heard of these missions before. So, an allied aircraft was packed full of explosives, flown to target by a crew who then bailed out? That was some brave guys to do that. Were these crews given any medals or awards for these missions?” Is that a better way to phrase my question? Bex

P.s: Bigvern, that was a good one tho 😀

Forgive me a moment, but Ive never heard of this before. So, an allied aircraft was packed full of explosives, flown to target by a crew who then bailed out? That was some brave guys to do that. Were these crews given any medals or awards for these missions? As I say, Ive never come across this before. Bex

Like Lee Harvey Oswald, one of them killed a Kennedy (Joe Kennedy Jr). He was in the crew of one which exploded in flight before he could bail out in late 1944.

But in the interests of not keeping the main 388th crews awake with constant explosions, they based Aphrodite at our satellite field, Fersfield as has been noted.

Moggy

Forgive me a moment, but Ive never heard of this before. So, an allied aircraft was packed full of explosives, flown to target by a crew who then bailed out? That was some brave guys to do that. Were these crews given any medals or awards for these missions? As I say, Ive never come across this before. Bex

RAF first with guided bomb!

The RAF were the first to sink a naval craft by a guided device as stated previously. The Luftwaffe first success was on the 27 August 1943 when the 40th Escort Group RN comprising two Destroyers and three small sloops was attacked by Dornier 217 E-5’s of KG-100 which split into three groups and launched seven Henschel 293 A1 glider bombs at the sloop HMS Egret which shot the first down, five missed and the last hit the munition store which exploded and the vessel sank with all hands. Information extracted from the book ‘DO 217-317-417 An Operational Record’ by Manfred Griel. Published by Airlife 1991.

I suppose it depends on what you define as a guided weapon.

The book definition of a Guided Weapon makes no metion of propulsion or medium though which the weapon travels. Hence the Mk 24 ‘Mine’ was a guided weapon and it was the first to be used operationally in history by anybody.

Didn’t the Germans use HE111’s to launch a wire guided weapons against shipping?

Fritz X was basically a development of the SD 1400 high-explosive bomb, fitted with an aerodynamic nose cone, 4 x wing stubs giving a 5ft wing span and a box section tail unit. It was steered by radio operator situated in, predominately, a HE111, HE177 or Do215 aircraft.

Some of the weapons most notable targets were, HMS Warspite off of Salerno which suffered 3 hits and was put out of commission for 9 months as a result. Other seabourne targets included the American cruisers Philadelphia and Savannah, British cruiser HMS Uganda damaged off of Salerno and HMS Spartan which was sunk off of Anzio as a result of a strike from a Fritz X. The destroyer HMS Janus which was also sunk off of Anzio and hospital ship HMHS Newfoundland sunk off of Salerno.

There are a few claims that the Norwegian destroyer Svenner was sunk by a Fritz X off of Normandy on the morning of 6 June 1944. Also HMS Lawford on 8 June 1944, which the Channel 4 programme Wreck Detectives featured and concluded that it had been sunk by a guided missle of sorts.

Well I didn’t do too badly from memory.

The homing torpedo in question was called (deliberately misleadingly) a ‘Mark 24 Mine’.

First use was by a B-24 Liberator of 86 Squadron RAF against U-456 on 12th May 1943 (the u-boat was damaged, unable to dive, and was sunk next day by surface escorts).

This was the first operational use of a guided weapon in history.

Didn’t the Germans use HE111’s to launch a wire guided weapons against shipping?

Yes, e.g. the 388th based at Moggy’s airfield did this with B-17s.

But in the interests of not keeping the main 388th crews awake with constant explosions, they based Aphrodite at our satellite field, Fersfield as has been noted.

Moggy

I’m sure it has been mentioned previously, but weren’t some WWII, near end of life, bombers packed full of explosives and remotely guided to their targets, with varying success, by the RAF and the US airforce?

Surely they would qualify as guided weapons?

As they were used as weapons, surely they were “operational” too, even though they were experimental.

The project was code named Aphrodite and in all IRCC 13 attempts were made, none of them were successful.

The first attempted flight was on 4 August 1944 and was a disaster when the aircraft lost control and crashed neat Orford in Suffolk. The first attempted operational sortie was on the 12 August 1944 resulted in the death of Joseph Patrick Kennedy Jr the elder brother of JFK. His aircraft a PBY4-1 32271 ex USAAF B-24J 42-110007 detonated prematurely killing Kennedy and his Co Pilot before they could bail out. The aircraft had departed RAF Fersfield in Norfolk at 18.05.

Doing a Google I Found this :-

ATTEMPTED FIRST APHRODITE ATTACK TWELVE AUGUST WITH ROBOT TAKING OFF FROM FERSFIELD AT ONE EIGHT ZERO FIVE HOURS PD ROBOT EXPLODED IN THE AIR AT APPROXIMATELY TWO THOUSAND FEET EIGHT MILES SOUTHEAST OF HALESWORTH AT ONE EIGHT TWO ZERO HOURS PD WILFORD J. WILLY CMA SR GRADE LIEUTENANT AND JOSEPH P. KENNEDY SR GRADE LIEUTENANT CMA BOTH USNR CMA WERE KILLED PD COMMANDER SMITH CMA IN COMMAND OF THIS UNIT CMA IS MAKING FULL REPORT TO US NAVAL OPERATIONS PD A MORE DETAILED REPORT WILL BE FORWARDED TO YOU WHEN INTERROGATION IS COMPLETED

– Top Secret telegram to General Carl Andrew Spaatz, from General Jimmy Doolittle, August, 1944

Yes, e.g. the 388th based at Moggy’s airfield did this with B-17s.

I’m sure it has been mentioned previously, but weren’t some WWII, near end of life, bombers packed full of explosives and remotely guided to their targets, with varying success, by the RAF and the US airforce?

Surely they would qualify as guided weapons?

As they were used as weapons, surely they were “operational” too, even though they were experimental.

Well I didn’t do too badly from memory.

The homing torpedo in question was called (deliberately misleadingly) a ‘Mark 24 Mine’.

First use was by a B-24 Liberator of 86 Squadron RAF against U-456 on 12th May 1943 (the u-boat was damaged, unable to dive, and was sunk next day by surface escorts).

This was the first operational use of a guided weapon in history.

I suppose it depends on what you define as a guided weapon.

I think the most likely candidate for an operational use would be ‘wandering annie’ (can’t remember the cover name – Mark ?? Mine) an acoustic-homing anti-submarine torpedo that was first used during 1944 against a u-boat in the North Atlantic.

I’ll post some details later.