Rapide at DX 8th Sept Smoke but no fire…??

Hats-off to the ground crew for their quick reactions ….and kudos to the pilot and passengers in the other Rapide who were waiting to take off as events unfolded in their sister a/c behind them. I must say I would have wanted to have gotten off rather than taken a joyride at that point…..

daniel

Worrying

Wyvernfan, my comment was just stating my concerns that after years of hard graft not to mention pounds spent within seconds ones pride and joy could be consumed by fire. Clearly the instances of engine fire on start up are few and far between when you consider all the Rapide flights made annually, you only have to be unlucky once. Granted most Rapide start ups are with ground crew near by and extinguishers at the ready just in case. I intend to research carefully fire prevention, prudence says that the Proctor should be
started with the same care given to Rapides, an extinguisher carried at all times for start ups away from base.

Ref JDH1976. Aircraft concerned is a DH89 Dragon Six/Dragon Rapide/Dominie.
The Dragon is the DH84 (or 84A if Australian built)

we were parked on the hard with the An2 open for viewing,whilst i was surprised that both fire appliances were positioned down near the tower considering that the pleasure flying was being carried out all morning they were then further hampered by SOME morons on the flightline walk who would not get out of the way even with sirens wailing they seemed oblivious to the events going on around them ourselves and the drag em oot Dak crew had to shout/scream at some to “get out the way” as the fire appliance approached.

Isn’t it possible to mod the exhaust with a flame trap or something?

Or use a different finish?

Regards

Isn’t it possible to mod the exhaust with a flame trap or something?

I flew in this Dragon at Headcorn in August, they do indeed have guys standing by with fire extingiusers in hand during engine start up and for a short while until the engine is running smoothly. Which to me seems an appropraite level of precaution. I love the DH Dragon and would not be put off flying in one again. Lets hope they get her fixed soon and back bringing pleasure to those that fly in her.

It must be a little bit alarming for the passengers especially if it’s the exit side that catches!
Wouldn’t it make sense to have a crewman with extinguisher ready at the wing during engine start just in case?
Third time luck.

We always do this with the Air Atlantique Rapides, and I’m pretty sure that Classic Wings do to. It is a known issue. Thankfully in the six years that I have been involved with Air Atlantique’s we have only had it happen once, to Tango Mike in Jersey, quick reaction from the extingusher guy saw the damage limited to a size less than 2ft square. Strangely the incident happened at the exact time that most of us were attending Sybille’s funeral (for whom the aircraft is named after), make of that what you will.

[QUOTE=hampden98;1928385]It must be a little bit alarming for the passengers especially if it’s the exit side that catches!
Wouldn’t it make sense to have a crewman with extinguisher ready at the wing during engine start just in case?
QUOTE]

Door is on the port side – these incidents seem to have both been the other side.

With Tango Mike at DX in the 80s, there was usually an extinguisher nearby as I recall. Obviously Classic Wings had one close by as well by the look of it.

We didn’t have an incident like this, but I remember a bit of “torching” from one engine on landing one day, with passengers on board, which was ascribed to the priming pump not being completely closed. At cruise throttle settings, no problem; only manifested itself when throttled right back during the landing. Thankfully not a big flame, and was cleared immediately by the slipstream.

According to the ground support staff for the company they said it was thought that damage was confined to the fabric covering and a couple of ribs and that the main spares appear to have escaped being cooked.

Fingers cross this elegant bird will be back in the air before long.

Mike E

It must be a little bit alarming for the passengers especially if it’s the exit side that catches!
Wouldn’t it make sense to have a crewman with extinguisher ready at the wing during engine start just in case?
Third time luck.

I’m sure if there was any ‘worrying’ to do the CAA would of already done it. Several years and hundreds if not thousands of safe pleasure flights must count for something.!

Rob

Worrying!

This would seem not to be an isolated case. Reading Air Britains Rapide book one cannot fail to notice just how many Rapides succumbed to a flaming end on engine start up! As someone who will in the not to distant future be firing up a Queen 2, what should we be looking for or doing differently? It would I guess be a good idea as an additional pre start up check to have a body or two at each side with extinguishers poised just in case!! Am I right in saying that the issue is to do with fuel pooling in the manifold due to over priming then igniting on start up? The Proctors exhaust exits at the trailing edge of the lower engine cowl beneath plenty of doped fabric, tinder dry spruce and ply, as I say worrying!!

That’s a real shame I had wondered what the fire brigade were doing but I was behind hangar 3 when I heard the sirens, at the legends last year the fire engines were parked airside and were at the triplane in seconds when it nosed over were they not airside this time?

I flew in that aircraft a few years back hopefully she will be back flying soon.

Curlyboy

All 126 of them, according to the timing on my digital images.

I thought the appliance took an eternity to get to the scene.

I presume it was awaiting clearance.

Mark

Good to see how quickly this was dealt with, well done chaps! I too hope she’s fixed soon.

This was the previous report.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/DH89A%20Dragon%20Rapide,%20G-AIYR.pdf

”An eye witness, who was standing in front of and to
the right facing the aircraft, saw a long flame shoot out
of the exhaust of the starboard engine during start-up
(the exhaust being on the starboard side of the engine).
This flame started a fire on the rear fabric-covered
under-surface of the lower starboard wing, just outboard
of the engine.”

I recommend that in the future all Rapides be fitted with a flameproof panel under the wing, which will be known as the ‘Propstrike Panel’ – I will make millions in sales, and will be forever imortalised in Aviation history 😉

Does anybody know if the only exhaust outlet the pipe halfway down the undercarriage ‘spat’?

From the photograph in the link above it seems a long way to where the fire seems to have started; is there that big a ‘belch of flame’ from the exhaust?

Yikes! That doped fabric isn’t exactly fire-suppressant is it! 😮

You’d need to be bloody quick-off-the-mark to prevent a disaster. I hope the wing structure itself isn’t badly damaged.

It was fast, I watched the port engine start and then the attempt to fire up the next – the ground crew acted well and at one stage the fire looked like it was out then the whole wing just went up and it took seconds….

TBH I would be operating with some bigger equipment to handle something that goes up that fast and has done before…. Though again it was well handled and the damage contained.

Deja vu, all over again.

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image31866.html

there is an emergency access gate right in front of where i was standing. A few DX staff tried to keep it clear until about 12.00 noon but once this end filled up with people i guess it was imposable

You can’t seem to account for the illiterate – on every leaflet handed out with every ticket it clearly states –

“Keep emergency exits clear. Do not attach furniture, windbreaks or any other equipment to any of the airfield access gates including the yellow live side barriers….“

Just like the couple I spotted at the rear of Hangar 3 with a stepladder. I expect he though by wearing a hi-viz vest to go along with his camera bag he was exempt…

Quite frankly, if DX staff gave up trying to keep this emergency access point clear they need to revisit their briefing for the event….