Red Arrows – Hawk replacement – just a suggestion…

Why not use the venerable Chipmunk? The beautiful noise of 9 Gipsy Majors in formation would make every display truly unforgettable!
We already that the Chipmunk suits the colour red courtesy of Prince Charles’!

The Solution!! 😮

Sorry it’s a bit big 😮 I’m lazy

Naah, Red Arrows are classic and Typhoon looks better solo if you ask me. Would be a completely different event if they weren’t Hawks as Hawks are almost completely British-made whereas Typhoon is more of a collaboration.

maybe…

Behold what happens if you let the budget do the talking………RAAF Roulettes PC9s are good but I still miss the noise and speed of the Macchis………..

They have already sourced a replacement for the current Hawks used – its called more Hawks !
The RAF has been steadily storing up the replacements at RAF Shawbury and now have all the airframes required to completely ‘refresh’ the fleet.
The first of these was the unfortunate example which was trashed on landing at Cranwell a few months back, it was going there for repaint into the ‘Reds’ scheme – its since been replaced by another.
With the normal FI management undertaken by the team including swapping the wings around, this ‘new’ fleet should give them a mount for many years to come.

maybe ask on the modern forum but IIRC the RAF want to shift the “tranche 1” airframes if possible, with some on sale to Oman.

If they did look at this as an option (I have my doubts, costs etc) that maybe what they look at. Not a good time to equip a display team with the economic climate what it is, and more so, soldiers being put at risk for the lack of helicopters.:mad:

Oman will, allegedly, be getting tranche 2 aeroplanes.

re

Ironic if we had to buy surplus T45 Goshawks…

I reckon right now the best replacement for the BAe Hawk is a new BAe Hawk. I can’t think of any other aircraft I would like to see used by the Red Arrows. If there will be some future need for some kind of 5th generation trainer I am 100% sure the ‘aboninable no men’ in UK will succeed in ensuring it is made somewhere else.

re

Well I hope the BAE owned Hawk finds a good home, I loved it in the Blue scheme with the Reds.

Its absolutely ridiculous for the RAF to have a shortage of trainers. When you think of the scores of Vampires broken up in the 1960s, and the all the Hangers full of JPs and Hunters, all with hours still on the airframe, there really is no excuse.

I can’t believe I’m reading this, besides the point not being historical, the RAF gave up using their latest fighters in display teams back in the late sixties, largely on resources and economics grounds.
I’m sure the Reds can use the Hawk T.1 until both will be seen by some as outdated.

Spoke to Red 10 about this a couple of months ago at the Hoylake Lifeboat display…

His understanding was that the reds would be getting the pic of the airframes displaced from 4FTS by the Mk128’s, which should keep them going for a good few years, but after that he had no idea…

Zeb

I realise when they do fly it involves much more ‘high stress’ manoeuvres on the airframe but do they perform these flights for as many hours as a Hawk employed in a more sedate roll?

You’d be suprised how much abuse a hawk takes while in the hands of a student compared to the well planned and executed displays by the reds.

I doubt the 128 is a viable option and unless there is somewhere to perform majors on the T1’s they will be up soon. Remember that it wont be a ‘here’s your new 128 jet now you can retire the old ones’ at valley, but continue flying the t1’s until they are out of hours even with whatever airframe mods to keep them going.

maybe ask on the modern forum but IIRC the RAF want to shift the “tranche 1” airframes if possible, with some on sale to Oman.

If they did look at this as an option (I have my doubts, costs etc) that maybe what they look at. Not a good time to equip a display team with the economic climate what it is, and more so, soldiers being put at risk for the lack of helicopters.:mad:

the pic at the top needs changing a little bit. Dont think they can paint the nose cone:D:eek:

One thing I always wondered was the possibility of BAE ‘lending’ the RAF a dozen hawks to equip the Reds. In know that’s a hugely expensive option, but if it’s true that the Reds have sold more Hawks for BAE, than they could ever have sold themselves, then it may be a good option?

I know, it will never happen, but I do think that there would be some merit in the idea!

Too expensive I’m afraid. I discussed the idea of re-equipping the RAFAT with a smaller batch of Tornado F3’s some years back – possibly even the idea of reforming the Firebirds. The outcome was that it’s simply far too expensive to operate front-line jets. Apart from their higher operating costs, they are too complicated to support, and keeping even five or so aircraft available for maybe three displays a day is just not practical. It would require probably ten or more aircraft, plus all the support infrastructure. Nice idea bit just not sustainable.

The RAFAT is almost certain to go when their Hawks go – I fear it’s as simple as that. Even the idea of re-equipping with Tucanos (or their replacement) seems to have drifted-away now as a viable option.

Do the reds Hawks fly as many hours in a typical week as an FTS Hawk?

I realise when they do fly it involves much more ‘high stress’ manoeuvres on the airframe but do they perform these flights for as many hours as a Hawk employed in a more sedate roll?

😮 Whilst it might be a nice idea about Typhoon, just imagine the noise levels of a 9 ship in formation…. :diablo: The nimbies would have an absolute field day with the Reds….

Harrier – mmmmmmmmmmm now that’s a choice I agree on, in principle. Noise might again be an issue with a 9 ship, but for that extra dimension it would be unique. I’ve always loved the Harrier (makes you proud to be British)… 😀

To be honest, using Hawks is probably going to be the cheapest choice until the fatigue gets to them. With what appears to be a plentiful supply of airframes for a long time yet, and assuming the stock doesn’t all retire with fatigue used up, then the Hawk is an ideal platform to use. Easy to fix, reliable, and ideal for aerobatics. It would be a crying shame if they had to downsize to Tucano or Grobs…. 😮 (as examples).

It was a long time ago that the RAF used anything other than trainers in the aerobatic team role.

These new Hawks are being bought and built for training the next generation of aircrew, not to be painted red!
I’m sure the Hawks that will get released from 4FTS service by the new builds will keep the Red Arrows fleet going for a while.
FRADU have some Hawks that they could give up too….. 😉