Reflector Gunsight Type 1 Mk.II

Found the thread:
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=109302
Great stories Peter, thanks very much for sharing!

The Venom photo is very cool by the way. These sort of photos are rarer than hen’s teeth for some reason.

PS. I started work on the Mosquito, Peter:
http://www.digitalaviationart.com/forums/Mosquito/MosquitoFBMkVI_wip07.jpg
First an FB Mk VI and later perhaps a post-war nightfighter model! 🙂

Your Projector Type I, Mk. II with a Reflector Type I, Mk. I is not a Frankenstein monster. It is described as a normal combination in my copy of AP3196. It describes the Projector as being intended mainly for night use, whereas the Type I, Mk. I was intended for daylight use.

I’ll stick my neck out by saying that the sight shown in Peter’s photo is probably the same combination (which being in a Night Fighter Mosquito would be correct, of course).

I also have one of these with a white reticule gives off allot less glare than the standard orange.

For SkyRaider and anyone else interested, I put this thread up on 29th May 2011 “RAF Gunnery in the late War to mid 1950s”. Sorry I’m not techy enough to link back to it.

I also pinched this shot from a Venom squadron website which shows the procedure very well against a flag target.

Speaking of the flags or banners or whatever the proper term is, they seemed to be made of polypropelene sacking and pilots had strict instructions not to fire on them at less than 30 degrees deflection to avoid the risk of ricochets hitting the tug.
When we were on detachment to Habbaniyah the wing co flying was mad keen to add the Meteor NF to his list of types and arranged for us to do some air to air firing. He disobeyed the instruction and put a round neatly up the tailpipe of the tug.:mad::D:D
This immediately ended the exercise as we only had one aircraft with the mod to tow the banner.

Thanks Peter!

I don’t know about gun alignment with datum on the Mosquito. However I understand our guns were “harmonized” at 350 yards, i.e. bullet drop was allowed for at that range.

Just found this post… very interesting!

If people would like a little piece about aerial gunnery in those days, we did plenty and it was great fun, just say.

Definitely interested, Peter!
One thing I noted (correctly, I hope) is that in the Mosquito (and also in the Hurricane) the guns are level with the aircraft datum. In most other WW2 fighters the guns are raised one or two degrees to compensate for gravity. I found this quite unusual. Probably useful for ground attack but it seems like a handicap in aerial combat?

Alex or Laurent, or anyone else owning one of these gunsights (Mark II N in particular), could you help me with some measurements of your sight please? For example:
– overall height, width and depth
– glass height and width
– diameter of upper projector section
– adjustment ring diameter
It would help me constructing a 3D model of this gunsight, for lack of available scale drawings.

Thanks!

Always very interested in these sights ! any one got any spare parts ??

Alex,

If you’re inrerested in a copy, i would be more than interested to share the costs with you.

Laurent

that’d be brill, AM, would u be able to help us with this?

A.

Hello,

Yes, it does.

Complete references on the GS are :

STORES REF N°8B/2666
REFLECTOR GUN SIGHT MARK II N
A.M. SERIAL N° 1745/43

And below that, the usual British, French and US patent.

Also, STORES REF originally was 8B/2446 but 2446 was painted over and new ref 2666 was engraved next to it.

By the way, thanks for the info about AP manuals referring to gun sights. I’m desperately looking for any detailed info on GB & US WII gunsights.

Laurent

Hello all,

At home, i have a gunsight with exactly the same dots, single ring and open/shut position but reference are different :

REF : 8B/2666
Type : MARK II N

No serial or reference on the sighting head.

Couldn’t also find any reference on this gunsight.

Laurent

Hi Laurent,

Does the plate on your gunsight refer to a Reflector Sight Mk. II N?

If it does, then I think it would be a slightly earlier version of the one Alex has and I would guess that the N refers to “Night”.

At some point the Reflector Sight Mk II underwent a design change. The body became a Projector, and the head became a Reflector, whereas previously they were regarded as one item.

There were then several different designs of Projector and Reflector, which were interchangeable to some extent, depending upon intended use.

I’m not sure when this change happened, but it is one subject I am researching down at The National Archives, so I hope to uncover the full story in time.

well, u do what you can 😉
thanks for the help chaps, so is there any document or manual that I should refer to in order to know more about the gunsight? AM, you cited the AP3196, is there a way to get hold of a copy?

Cheers

Alex

Alex,

If you’re inrerested in a copy, i would be more than interested to share the costs with you.

Laurent

Hello all,

At home, i have a gunsight with exactly the same dots, single ring and open/shut position but reference are different :

REF : 8B/2666
Type : MARK II N

No serial or reference on the sighting head.

Couldn’t also find any reference on this gunsight.

Laurent

Hi Alex,

AP3106, Section 6 covers all service gunsights, but only in fairly brief detail. It is dated c. 1948 so has details of both reflector sights and G.G.S.

For an in-depth look, you will need a copy of AP1275E, dating from around the same period. It will cover both the projector and reflector.

RAF Museum Hendon (DORIS) should be able to help you out.

well, u do what you can 😉
thanks for the help chaps, so is there any document or manual that I should refer to in order to know more about the gunsight? AM, you cited the AP3196, is there a way to get hold of a copy?

Cheers

Alex

I can see from my pic that it also shows the SHUT and OPEN markings. A great pity I did not have my current little digital camera instead of the 120 rollfilm Agfa I had then. F4.5 and 3 speeds, focus by guesswork and exposure by God.
If people would like a little piece about aerial gunnery in those days, we did plenty and it was great fun, just say.

Thank you for your info AM! 🙂
I imagined it would be something for night fighters, since the reduced brightness of the “closed” position would hardly be seen in daylight.
So it would make sense to consider it a gunsight suitable for night fighter planes in general, or you know if there was another spec for it?
That’s very interesting, what I don’t get though is why there’s not range or selector.

Your Projector Type I, Mk. II with a Reflector Type I, Mk. I is not a Frankenstein monster. It is described as a normal combination in my copy of AP3196. It describes the Projector as being intended mainly for night use, whereas the Type I, Mk. I was intended for daylight use.

I’ll stick my neck out by saying that the sight shown in Peter’s photo is probably the same combination (which being in a Night Fighter Mosquito would be correct, of course).

Thanks for the picture Peter! It looks similar indeed, but on mine the ring dial goes either on “open” or “closed” positions, changing the reticle as you see in the pictures.

A.

Please see this pic of interior of Mosquito NF36 cockpit. I know we had a simple ring gunsight, there is a setting ring to input the target wingspan. This adjusts the size of the ring such that when the wingspan of the target fills the ring then the range is 350 yards.

Does this look similar ?

Here are some pictures, I put a lamp under the body and managed to take some shots of the reticle as well.
As you can see, the box says one model, the main body another, and the reflector assembly another! So it’s either a Frankenstein gunsight or it was upgraded during its service life (if it ever had any?!).