Rememberance.

Thanks Moggy. I appreciate that. The Low res will do very fine, cheers. I will add the photo when I get a chance.

As for P/O Alexander James Ryan
http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2763616

and Sgt Richard Booth Elliot
http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2763590

Yes, I believe they were in Brian’s crew. Two others died too, and one survived. I’m sure Errol Martyn could add much more, I don’t have his fine books to hand at the moment, although the details of the crash on my page do come primarily from his book.

Thanks Moggy. Would you mind if I put the photo of Brian McNamara’s grave onto his page on my site please? You will be credited of course. Thanks again.

I’d be very pleased if such use was made of the image.

The low res I’ve posted should be good enough for web use, but if you want the original 1.6Mb 300 ppi version I’ll happily e-mail it across.

Do we know anything of PO Ryan and Sgt Elliot

Moggy

Thanks Moggy. Would you mind if I put the photo of Brian McNamara’s grave onto his page on my site please? You will be credited of course. Thanks again.

As requested

1) Pilot Officer B P McNamara’s last resting place in Feltwell

2) In plots A2 and A3 are two further casualties from the same date, so I presume crewmen or at least colleagues.

391367 PO A J Ryan RNZAF
581379 Sgt R B Elliot RAF

Moggy

Re the shape of Mrs Lucas’ headstone, the notches indicate a civilian grave. As her death was not due to enemy action she would not appear on the CWGC civilian war dead roll-of-honour. I would assume that when the temporary wartime grave markers were replaced by the permanent CWGC ones, Mrs Lucas’ headstone was replaced at the same time, even though her death was not due to enemy action. Possibly this required someone other than the CWGC to pay for her headstone, such as her husband.

The CWGC website information re the plot contains this information. The plot also contains two graves which are not war graves. A civilian, the wife of an airman at the R.A.F. Station. was buried there in 1941; as was an airman from the station who died in 1948

Geoff.

Hi,

I think that you will find the headstone for Mrs Lucas was provided by private subscription.

The shape of the headstone (top in particular) is not the standard CWGC pattern and her name is not recorded in the CWGC registers of administered civilian graves.

Ross

Hi, Dave.

From your quote it seems Mrs. Lucas had been in New Zealand though whether a native New Zealander is unclear. If she was, perhaps it was thought appropriate to bury her in this plot as she would be close to fellow New Zealanders. Or if she was English, perhaps she had no family so it was decided to inter her at Feltwell.

As to the military funeral, I would suggest it was because she had a considerable influence on the Squadron during a particularly difficult time.

Regards,

Kevin Mears

Can you throw any more light on what happened to Popeye’s wife and why she was accorded such an unusual privelege?

Moggy

Well, I have found a copy of Popeye’s book today to check this out. I have previously considered buying the book, called “Popeye Lucas: Queenstown”, but for someone who had such an extraordinary career in both the RNZAF and civil flying, it seems really vague and lacking in detail, so thus far I haven’t bothered. On the death of his wife, he mentions it as if in passing, perhaps because it was still painful. Here is what he wrote:

“In 1940 my wife, Joan, had come back to England after the birth of our daughter and we’d been living off-station in a rented house in Lakenheath village. The blitz was at its height, and night-bombing was fairly heavy round our area at Feltwell. I was getting back in the dawn hours after night after night of operations; during this time my wife died suddenly in her sleep. She was given a military funeral and buried in the Services section in St Mary’s Churchyard at Feltwell.”

That’s it. Onto the next chapter when he returned to NZ.

I didn’t see any mention of whether she was actually a WAAF or worked on the station or anything. It seems very odd that a civiliian would get a military funeral, wouldn’t it? I know Popeye was regarded very highly, but this seems unusual.

His second wife, Lorie Lucas (I’ve confirmed now she was his wife, not daughter), was a WAAF he met when he came back to Whenuapai in Auckland. She wrote Popeye’s War which may tell more I hope, but I have not yet found a copy. Maybe your local church records may divulge why she got the military funeral and plot?

ex ATC cadet

I seriously wish I hadnt left. Night x’s were great.

More

34232, Collett, Wilfred Ira,

Gradation Dates
Acting P/O 14 September 1934
P/O 14 September 1935
F/O 14 April 1937

Postings
29 Sept 1934, Posted to No.3 FTS, Grantham, Under Instruction
8 Jan 1936, Posted to No.45 Squadron, Helwan.
21 April 1937, Posted to No.4 FTS, Abu Sueir, Instructor.
Still listed as Instructor with No.4 FTS in Jan 1939.

Regards
Ross

Hi Moggy/Kev,

Never been able to resist a Historical query on Between the Wars Officers.

356626, Dow, Douglas Cameron, Warrant Officer, Gradation Date 12 March 1937.

39381, Gillespie, Albert George, Gradation Dates, Acting P/O 25 January 1937, P/O 16 November 1937.

Postings:
6 Feb 1937, Posted to No.11 FTS, Wittering. Under instruction
4 Sept 1937 Posted to No.37 Sqn

Regards
Ross

Thanks Moggy, that would be great when you get the chance.

I am not sure what happened to Mrs Lucas. However I’ll try to look it up. I’m sure it will either be in the book “Popeye Lucas: Queenstown” – the autobiography of Fred “Popeye” Lucas. Or it may be covered in “Popeye’s War” written by his second wife (or is it his daughter – can’t remember) Lorie Lucas. When I get a chance I’ll look into it, unless someone beats me.

I wish I’d seen this before you went as I’d love to get a photo of Brian McNamara’s grave, in St Nicholas’s churchyard (row A, grave 4)
He’s one of the airmen on my site here
http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/Brian%20Mcnamara.htm

No hardship to do that. You can actually see the hedge that forms the boundary to my garden in the shot of the CWGC plot, so it isn’t exactly time consuming. 🙂

Can you throw any more light on what happened to Popeye’s wife and why she was accorded such an unusual privelege?

Moggy

Squadron Leader F. J. Lucas was I’d think the very famous Fred “Popeye” Lucas DFC who was in No. 75 (NZ) Squadron at Feltwell during their Wellington days. He later commanded No. 487 (NZ) Sqn and No. 40 Squadron RNZAF. A very famous pilot in NZ aviation circles. His aircraft always wore a Popeye emblem, as he looked just like the cartoon character.

Lovely photos Moggy. I have been away for the weekend. I wish I’d seen this before you went as I’d love to get a photo of Brian McNamara’s grave, in St Nicholas’s churchyard (row A, grave 4)
He’s one of the airmen on my site here
http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/Brian%20Mcnamara.htm

Remembrance Sunday is not a big thing in NZ as we have ANZAC Day, which has been marked since 1916. But here in Cambridge we do have Armistace Day commemorations, with a service, wreath laying, and other official commemoration like a waiata, and then the day continues with re-enactors having mock battles to teach people about the war, and warbird displays, parachutists, live wartime music, etc. Usually the Ambassador from France is in Cambidge, and we’ve also had other Ambassadors from the USA, Italy and other nations attend, as well as very high ranking service personnel. There is also a military vehicle parade and much more. There’s a Victory Dance with a Big Band the night before (Saturday) and this year apparently they plan a military collector’s fair on the Town Square on the Friday too. A really interesting day and one that touches well on both the remembrance side and the eductational side, with a lot of entertainment thrown in. Very popular it is too.

Are you sure Mrs. Lucas was the wife of the Station Commander? Station Commanders were usually Group Captains or at least Wing Commanders were they not?

kev35

I have absolutely no idea why I wrote that.

Two possibilities.

1) It is something I’ve heard elsewhere and just dredged from memory

2) I’m going senile.

I’d reckon the odds are 10:90

Moggy

Thank you for that, it is most appreciated. It seems I shall have to make a trip to Feltwell myself one day.

Are you sure Mrs. Lucas was the wife of the Station Commander? Station Commanders were usually Group Captains or at least Wing Commanders were they not? As to Mrs. Lucas’ presence, I believe Feltwell was bombed on a couple of occasions so maybe she died as a result of enemy action? Or perhaps she was deemed to have had such an influence on the Station or one of the based Squadrons that it was thought proper that she be interred there. Interesting.

Thanks again.

Regards,

kev35

As you can see, all the above graves, plus a one below are in the main churchyard of the smaller (and disused) church in the village.

The there’s the CWGC area, also in the same churchyard but standing isolated. Again there are some graves in there which are pre November 1940, but I guess you can pick those up from the CWGC site.

Finally an oddity. The Station Commander’s wife buried in a CWGC cemetery with a standard headstone. I wonder why?

Moggy

Didn’t know if you particularly wanted them with post November 11 poppies or not. Stunning day today here, so a pleasure to walk around the village.

Here we go. I’m hoping all the detail is readable, but if not, just yell

1) The memorial area at the main churchyard
2) 75 Sq dedicated memorial
3) A 214 Heyford crew killed pre-war and buried in an odd combination of graves, but in proximity
4) A 37 Sg crew, yet again in an assortment of graves
5) Right timescale I think, but no way to identify the squadron
6) Ditto
7) Another crew, Colmer’s this time, together but separated
8) Right timescale I think, but no way to identify the squadron
9) Two RFC graves, maybe three? The airfield was active in WW1
10) Right timescale I think, but no way to identify the squadron

More follows

Moggy

Rob.

Seeing as you’re the one going to take the photographs do it whenever you have the time or are in the mood. There is no rush. I shall be appreciative of seeing the photo’s whenever.

Regards,

Kevin Mears

I can do it today if you like.

Moggy