Restorations/ Rebuilds

Not quite the same 😉

… then got onto what id like to restore to flight, and came up with the idea of doing the dornier 335 :diablo:

Have you got Clive duCros book?:diablo:

Right, sorry i picked that up from your first post, obviously mind wasnt working 😮

I was only thinking this the other day that its a shame that there are so few origingal Axis aircraft flying on the warbird scheme, then got onto what id like to restore to flight, and came up with the idea of doing the dornier 335 :diablo:

hi mark that was exactly what i was after 🙂

So realistically in this country, anything massively exotic = no?

No, not quite as simple as that – I said anything exotic that was only partially complete would represent a huge challenge if original drawings were missing. If you have an original aircraft or remains of as a starting point and have drawings available it is possible to re-manufacture parts from those drawings provided you can come up with identical material or prove a substitute material is as good or better. The liklihood with such types as the Do 335 (as opposed to a Spitfire or P-51) is that the original drawings are not readily available and perhaps no longer exist at all. This is the issue that makes restoration of these aircraft (in the UK), from partial remains, so difficult.

hi mark that was exactly what i was after 🙂

So realistically in this country, anything massively exotic = no?

I don’t know what it’s like in the UK but we are building an accurate airworthy replica of an He 51 here in Germany and the fact that the type has already flown before is making things rather easy for us.

That would not cut much ice with the CAA – it would still be viewed as a ‘new’ type and cause the same problems mentioned earlier in your post. The authority here in the UK sees a very distinct difference between a replica of ‘warbird x’ and an example of ‘warbird x’ itself, no matter whether or not there were any differences in the parts.

As a consequence, if you have ambitions to fly ‘warbird x’ in the UK under a Permit to Fly (the airworthiness catergory for the operation of ex military aircraft) then you would need to find an example of one or the remains of one in order to register the aircraft and subsequently restore it. The presence or absence of a data plate is not a direct obstical but you would need to know the identity of the airframe or remains thereof in order to register it. The re-build of said warbird then needs to be carried our by (or under the direct supervision of) an organisation holding CAA A8/20 E4 certification which allows the to make the AAN application for the issue of the first Permit. Subsequent renewals can be carried out by CAA M5 maintenance organisations.

So back to the original question, to what extent does the existance of the original manuals and drawings really matter. That depends to a large degree on how much of the original aircraft remains. If it was something truly exotic such as the Do 335 mentioned earlier that was partially complete I think you would have a near impossible task on your hands in the UK. Some degree or reverse engineering is permissable, with logic, stress calculation and material analysis but you could easily get to the stage where there is a mountain to climb. Of course in the US its a different picture so long as you are happy with registration in the Experimental catergory.

When I began the He 51 project some four years ago, I literally started off with a blank piece of paper. I purchased the handbooks of which copies were available and they pointed us in the right direction. However, the project really took off when we came across a very rare repair manual in Munich. The owner of this manual, also an aircraft enthusiast who once owned and flew a Messerschmitt 108, also planned to build an He 51 replica in the early eightees. He received a vast amount of material on the He 51 from Karl Schwärzler whom he knew personally. Schwärzler was part of the team that designed the He 51 in the 1930s. This was material that up until then I only could have dreamed of. We now have what we need to get her as close to the original machines as possible.
You never know what it could be like with other types. I know that it is fairly easy to get good material on German aircraft who’s manufacturers were in the area that was occupied by either the British, Americans or the French. Dornier was in Oberpfaffenhoven so chances that plans of the Do 335 have survived are pretty good – besides, there is a complete airframe in the USA. It is next to impossible to get anything on the He 111 or He 177 as the Soviets took everything away after the war. We were lucky with our He 51 though.
But on the other hand, I know that the team restoring the FW 200 in Bremen are having great difficulties in locating plans of the FW 200. And Focke Wulf were in Bremen. I don’t think they’ll find anything.
It’s either hit-or-miss.

Peter

hi peter 🙂 yes it does

My thought were with something such as the Dornier Pfiel in the manner that since id imagine that little/no original manuals exist for it, would i still be able to (hypothetically) restore it and fly it?

I don’t know what it’s like in the UK but we are building an accurate airworthy replica of an He 51 here in Germany and the fact that the type has already flown before is making things rather easy for us. The difference to Flug Werks’ 190s is that they are new designs and not authentic replicas of aircraft that have already flown. Thus they are new aircraft that have to go through all the paperwork and the rest, which is probably why it is taking so long with the Duxford based 190. This is one of the reasons why we decided to go for an accurate replica.
I hope this answers your question a bit.

Peter

almost a year since i posted this, no one answers? 🙁

bump!!

can none of you in your infinite wisdom answer my question? 🙁