RIAT 2010

The fact that EADS are sponsoring RIAT could well have a huge influence on the fact that the 109 is appearing there.
I have had no hand in organising a display so can’t speak from experience but there must be a huge number of reasons why some of the Europen warbirds don’t appear here including fuel costs (balanced against the fees for a display), possibly insurance restrictions and it could even be that some are not keen to risk a channel crossing (even though the channel is a comparatively narrow stretch of water) where the consequences of a technical problem could be an almost certain total loss into the sea as opposed to there being at least some chance of a successful forced landing or diversion to the nearest airfield if the aircraft had problems over the European mainland.
The above is only my own personal view based on a common sense approach but it does seem a fairly logical explanation for the situation.
Incidentally although I wasn’t lucky enough to see it I think TFC deserve huge credit for bringing the Caudron Racer replica over last year for what I believe was its only UK display. It was a great pity that it didn’t also make it to Old Warden while it was here as that was probably the most appropriate UK setting for it.

Maybe it’s a massive coincidence but RIAT is sponsored by EADS who operate the ‘Me109’s’ !

Very probably the same reason they have never made it to ANY airshow over here in the last decade. You might want to consider the fact that it’s for reasons other than the airshow operators not wanting to book them.

You could also ask why the Red Bull aircraft are never in the UK as well.

Just because aircraft appear at European shows don’t mean they are automatically available for shows over here.

So why the woffle then Chris? Well because apparently some aircraft won’t be at Leg Ends this year, ruffling feathers may well make that difficult in the future so rather than complain lets us just chew on what the mystery mustang is, what will the Hawker line up be (who entered the FofTFC competition!). No one will explain publicly the business/logistics plan behind a display line up so it really is a waste of time going down that route.

I expect this one is directed at me. So, this isn’t as much a post complaining that a certain aircraft isn’t there this year. More a “why haven’t these aircraft ever made it to the show”! Which have been held for more than a decade actually. If I interpret your post right it means that I really ought to do the sing and dance act of praise and worship only. As long as I fall in line and never ask any questions “vaguely” thought of as negative (Spell= complaining) we’re doing fine? Sorry, until the day the headline on this forum says Jehova’s Witnesses forum that won’t happen. Now, if I have misinterpreted you, then I’m sorry for that! But in general, to those who don’t like my stance, tough!

One man I know I should apologize to is Mark Stringer for actively hi-jacking his RIAT thread.

Jane and everyone at TFC work harder than all of you will know to make Legends the show it is, year after year they succeed in putting together a world class airshow, even when faced with the problems of last year they managed to put on one of the best Flying Legends ever. Yet still the moaning goes on.

Just because RIAT have the EADS 109 doesn’t mean that it’s available for Legends, do you honestly think TFC would miss an opportunity to have the aircraft at the show?

I know more than most about what goes on behind the scenes at TFC and I can guarantee you they make every effort to get the best warbirds for Legends.

I have no doubt they work hard at that, and in fact I believe I said as much in post #22. Given that I do come across every year I must enjoy it, or else I wouldn’t have waisted my hard- earned cash to do it. But if all it takes to be labelled a moaner here is to question something, well, then I can live with that.

I’m not specifically thinking about this year’s Legends when it comes to the EADS 109. To quote what I’ve just said to Chris G in this post:
this isn’t as much a post complaining that a certain aircraft isn’t there this year. More a “why haven’t these aircraft ever made it to the show”!
And the fact still remain, they haven’t!

T J

Jane and everyone at TFC work harder than all of you will know to make Legends the show it is, year after year they succeed in putting together a world class airshow, even when faced with the problems of last year they managed to put on one of the best Flying Legends ever. Yet still the moaning goes on.

Just because RIAT have the EADS 109 doesn’t mean that it’s available for Legends, do you honestly think TFC would miss an opportunity to have the aircraft at the show?

I know more than most about what goes on behind the scenes at TFC and I can guarantee you they make every effort to get the best warbirds for Legends.

Have to say, yet again Brian has served up a classic evocactive photo!!!

Also, without turning this into another legends thread, i see a few more bits have changed on G-INFO. :D:D

TJJ

I think the clue to your answer was in the part of BWB post which you chose to exclude from your reasoning:

,….including the ones you mention, some reply ,some don’t.

Unless you know something we don’t that would seem to be a clear indication of the facts?

No, I don’t have any inside information here, hence my last question to BWB. It would be very unfortunate though if as suggested, a multinational corporation like EADS don’t even answer a request for an airshow appearance. I could understand it if it was a sourpuss private owner as I trust some of that category exist! But one thing is undeniable. EADS have replied to RIAT!

T J

I love a good conspiracy theory, even though they usually turn out to be furtive imagination. Having watched airshow programming from close up for over twenty years, the reasons why some aircraft don’t appear at certain shows are vast and varied. Usually driven by business decisions, costs, positioning and operational requirements. I have yet to see conspiracy as a reason.

Bentwing Bomber is spot on when he says TFC pull out all the stops to get a great show and I imagine RIAT do the same.

I might be a little tired this morning, but where do you find the conspiracy theory? Let’s have a look:

We have three DB-605 powered Hispano Buchon’s in Germany, all of which have been flying over the years. That’s a fact!

We have Flying Legends, the biggest gathering of warbirds here in Europe. That’s a fact!

The aircraft and venue above has never gotten together. That’s a fact!

The same aircraft has been to La Ferte Alais (2nd biggest gathering of warbirds in Europe) several times over the years. And now EADS finally brings a 109 to the UK but they choose RIAT instead of Legends. This I feel beckons the question, why?

I’ve never said that TFC don’t do a great job in getting the show together. They do! I feel this was probably best proven last year when they managed to do wonders and rally the warbird fraternity while their own fleet was down. However, I can’t remember signing any waiver here saying that any post shall be of praise and worship, and nothing else.

I first came to Legends in 97 (having been to Classic Fighter in 92), returned in 2000, had a hiatus until 2005, and has been there every year since. Will come over again on Thursday so I do believe I can be considered a supporter of this venue.

I know for a fact “they” have a list of every historic aircraft based in europe.

These operators are asked to attended each year,including the ones you mention, some reply ,some dont.

So it is not a case of “them” not seeing fit to book a certain aircraft.

I’ll admit “not seeing fit” was a little harsh. I do expect they have a list. But do you know how high up on that list the EADS 109s are? Reason for asking being that if 90 % of all the operators say yes you would really have to make some hard decisions as whom to actually bring in. And where in the scheme of things would our German friends be?

T J

Is that a photo of its new scheme??

yes it is :diablo:

Which leaves me wondering what’s up as EADS has never appeared at Legends (going back to the 90s) with their entourage, nor did Red 7 by its former owner. Yet both groups have visited La Ferte Alais over the years and now RIAT has pulled the EADS 109 out of their hat!

T J

I love a good conspiracy theory, even though they usually turn out to be furtive imagination. Having watched airshow programming from close up for over twenty years, the reasons why some aircraft don’t appear at certain shows are vast and varied. Usually driven by business decisions, costs, positioning and operational requirements. I have yet to see conspiracy as a reason.

Bentwing Bomber is spot on when he says TFC pull out all the stops to get a great show and I imagine RIAT do the same.

as far as I know, the R7 will be at RIAT
(for a long time the first german Messerschmitt over the channel… :diablo:)

but R7 sadly will not be at legends (afaik)

and G10 will have their first flights after repair and new painting
probably in early autumn this yeas…

Is that a photo of its new scheme??

Which leaves me wondering what’s up as EADS has never appeared at Legends (going back to the 90s) with their entourage, nor did Red 7 by its former owner. Yet both groups have visited La Ferte Alais over the years and now RIAT has pulled the EADS 109 out of their hat!

T J

Here you go ,why dont you ask them.

http://fighter-collection.com/pages/tfc/contact/index.php

Our film prop Heinkel 111 cockpit (on display at East Kirkby) from the Battle of Britain and The Lion Witch and the Wardrobe films will be there on display in the Battle of Britain village.

“They” try very hard to put something new in front of “you” every year.

Do you really think that a collection such as TFC have not been down every
route to secure these aircraft or others that are based in europe to get them to Flying Legends?

I know for a fact “they” have a list of every historic aircraft based in europe.

These operators are asked to attended each year,including the ones you mention, some reply ,some dont.

So it is not a case of “them” not seeing fit to book a certain aircraft.

Which leaves me wondering what’s up as EADS has never appeared at Legends (going back to the 90s) with their entourage, nor did Red 7 by its former owner. Yet both groups have visited La Ferte Alais over the years and now RIAT has pulled the EADS 109 out of their hat!

T J

No worries old boy:D

I think its fair to say:D Legends is gonna be one hell of a show.Lets just hope this decent weather holds for the next 2 weeks for both the shows.

Mark Stringer

Mark I am rather confused by the way you flit from one airshow thread to another? One minute you are bemoaning that TFC don’t publish a list, then when they do you immedietly start a new thread ostensibly about another display and drag the FlyingLegends participants list into that thread.

There is no thanks to the guys and gals at TFC for their hard work in securing unique and different combinations from all over, just an ill informed and naive comment about what is not , as far as you know attending Flying legends – I am not sure of where your standing is in the airshow organisation business so you may know a lot more than me but it does seem a bit odd.

I guess BentWing Bomber is involved with the guys at TFC and has added some info. for all of us.

Rather than bleating about what isn’t there these people might like to hear some appreciation about what they have attending, as would the people at RIAT and Waddington.
they come from 🙂

I suggest you read the entire thread. Not at any point have i bemoaned the fact that The TFC hasn’t published a list.

As for jumping between threads aren’t you doing the same.

The statement around EADS was also in jest hence the 😉

I have a massive amount of respect for these guys who put in the hard work to keep these machines in the air.

as far as I know, the R7 will be at RIAT
(for a long time the first german Messerschmitt over the channel… :diablo:)

but R7 sadly will not be at legends (afaik)

and G10 will have their first flights after repair and new painting
probably in early autumn this yeas…

so can we take it that eads won’t be at legends then?;)

What really surprises me is that they don’t seem fit to book one of the EADS 109/ Buchon’s for Legends.

T J

“They” try very hard to put something new in front of “you” every year.

Do you really think that a collection such as TFC have not been down every
route to secure these aircraft or others that are based in europe to get them to Flying Legends?

I know for a fact “they” have a list of every historic aircraft based in europe.

These operators are asked to attended each year,including the ones you mention, some reply ,some dont.

So it is not a case of “them” not seeing fit to book a certain aircraft.

There are definitely PLANNED to be 3 x 109 / Buchons at RIAT 2010. Serviceability permitting naturally.

What really surprises me is that they don’t seem fit to book one of the EADS 109/ Buchon’s for Legends.

T J