Right to defend using reasonable force?

Sounds a real nightmare – maybe they’d just paid him off after a failed audition….

Hi Jim

Sounds a real nightmare that you witnessed – maybe they’d just paid him off after a failed audition for a King Kong sequel movie.;)

Which is why the local police armed response unit vehicles are extremely weighed down in their boots (if saloons or estates) and I can’t blame them having to be prepared.

Yes unfortunately tragedies occur with mistaken identifity or inadvertent deaths but when it comes to a ‘them or us’ situation even for the sanest of individuals ‘flight or fright’ kicks in; and then we have in UK years of very expensive inquiries during which inevitable accusations of cover ups are made.:(

I suppose according to the history of evolution humans descended from ape like creatures and it sounds like the individual was still transitioning.:D

Depends on what it takes to subdue the perp, what if beating the guy to death is the only option because he’s wacked out on PCP or some other drug.. or he’s mentally unbalanced?

I agree, The night I went out with the CHP in San Diego, the Sgt I was with arrested a youth from Colorado, who was the worse for drink. We took him to the Station where he was processed, we then heard a hell of a racket from the holding cell, we run over there, and there were about 7 or 8 Officers trying to subdue a perp, who was high on PCP, I actualy was present and saw 6, yes 6 Tazers fired at this chap who was the same colour as a gorrilla, and just about as big, the Tazers didn’t even faze this guy, in the end, they had to use a rifle and fire a tranc dart into him.
Now, what would be the needed force should this perp have broken into YOUR house in the middle of the night?.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

Now the full story has come to light and certainly if he was threatened with a machete then it was self defence and a relief that common sense has prevailed.

Sadly I doubt this will be the last such case but it would be nice to dream that this sends out a message to those contemplating committing crimes.

Well, it is very good news for Mr Flanagan.

Salford burglar stabbing: No prosecution for householder

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14248097

hahaha good old Ken, obviously there will be different levels of death….

Without wanting to stir Ken Clarke is going to open up a whole new can of worms with this proposal and as the debate here has proven, what is reasonable force and what is premeditated and how to prove it?

Florida has the right idea:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2010-09-17/news/fl-pompano-road-rage-20100916_1_road-rage-florida-law-mike-dutko

And in that very eloquent couple of sentences you have defined reasonable force. You used enough force to defend yourself and subdue your assailant. You didn’t go on to beat him to death which is what a number of posters to this thread are advocating.

Regards,

kev35

Depends on what it takes to subdue the perp, what if beating the guy to death is the only option because he’s wacked out on PCP or some other drug.. or he’s mentally unbalanced?

And in that very eloquent couple of sentences you have defined reasonable force. You used enough force to defend yourself and subdue your assailant. You didn’t go on to beat him to death.

Kev I think really that in one of your previous posts you have described the problem and position the best of all of us when you quite simply said no one would know how they would react unless they are put in that position.

We should perhaps all reflect on that and hope that we never need to use resonable force or any other kind of force lest we have to use our own particular type of force that we have described here.

Merlin, when you open the garden gate does a giant log swing down on a rope? as you pass the garage does a giant springloaded branch covered in spikes spring round from the rear?

No Tony that would be silly.

We dont have a garage. 😀

But we do have a security gate with razor wire leading to our own private boardwalk.

Oh but mind the claymores if your planning to visit. 🙂

ZRX61. Rick, As an ex Pat, you should know, there is just no comparison whatsoever with the U.S. Police Officers and ours, apart from the fact ours have brains, I know, I have worked along side them.;) Those in the U.S.A.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

For instance, let’s just say a man armed with a knife attacks a Police Officer. In the US isn’t it relatively simple in that the Officer draws his personal weapon and shoots the assailant.
Regards,

kev35

That happened here in town a few years back, some scrote ran off, cop gave chase, scrote picks up & starts throwing rocks at cop. Bang, thud. End of problem.

& then there was the bomb scare while I was at college one night. Campus cops approach 3 of us & tell us there’s been a bomb threat called in & do we know anything about it.. (FFS!) This was a little after 7pm. I asked the campus cops if they were going to evacuate the college.. No, they were going to look for the bomb after 9pm when all the evening classes were over….

At which point I asked what their plan was if the bomb only had a 30 minute timer….

The look on their faces was priceless….

So not all US cops are on the ball…

God Lord, is this thread still going? Outstanding! 😀

Everyone will huff & they’ll puff until….well…… I’m not sure really :rolleyes:

reasonable force is determined as being the very least you can do to stop a situation happening

for instance if a punch is thrown reasonable force would involve simply blocking the punch and walking back

if however the person was armed it is deemed reasonable for you to be armed ( but not above what they have !! as then it is deemed overboard )

however four hooded guys against one guy even if he was armed and they weren’t it will probably be judged as reasonable as you are protecting yourself against a mob that you don’t know if they’re armed or not

many years ago i knew a few burglars from various things i worked on and believe me none of them would have given a second thaught about assaulting someone if discovered and a certain percentage carried either a knife or an iron bar to do so !!

forget images of raffles the gentleman thief this is the real world !!

Big if’s in this whole thread, this was 4 people, you do not know if he lunged at him or was holding a knife to protect his family, none of us do, all we are saying if it was us, we too would use what ever came to hand to stop them, we are not advocating killing the guy, simply stopping them, if his death follows on from that then all be it his own fault for being there and doing what he was doing….. end of the day, you or we do not know their intentions, robbery, assault, murder. rape……… and neither did the occupants of the house going about their legal right to a peaceful life….. one hopes those who are more leaning towards let the police deal with it are so leniant if someone broke into your house and was assualting your wife, daughter, kids……

As for the cheap gibe about the war,I very much doubt whether a single contributor to this thread is actually old enough to have had the chance of killing enemy forces back then.

If that comment was aimed at me, my comment wasn’t supposed to be a ‘cheap jibe’ – and I have served in some very unfriendly parts of the world where the use of deadly force was a real possibility…

Kev. And your opinion of thread 118, my own description of reasonable force?.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

…the only time I used what I would call reasonable force, was when I was stabbed at close range, in my left side, I used my staff to beat my assailant to the ground, and called for asistance, and medical aid, I had him pinned down, and that was it, why would anymore force than had been used be needed?. In my case my reasonable force gave me the result I wanted, Criminal downed, arrested.

And in that very eloquent couple of sentences you have defined reasonable force. You used enough force to defend yourself and subdue your assailant. You didn’t go on to beat him to death which is what a number of posters to this thread are advocating. If in this latest incident the householder is deemed to have used reasonable force to defend his life and that of his family then he has nothing to worry about. And in your case outlined above your assailant was then subjected to trial in a court of law. Justice was done.

Regards,

kev35

C.D Warren, yes I did hence my reply.:)
Having given this topic more thought perhaps “Reasonable Force” is the most minimalistic force needed to acomplish any given situation whereby force to acomplish that task is needed. In future to be case stated as, “Jims Law” 😉

Jim.

Lincoln .7

…it sure does need clarification, if what you have put down is anything to go by, or did you make it up.

Did you read it? 😀