Riot sentences 'too severe'

Peckham, tea time during the riots.

Mom comes home from work and walks into the lounge to find her son, 15 year old Desmond, sat in front of a 42″ plasma tv, an XBOX 360, a Wii console and a brand new iPhone.

She says “Desmond where did you get all this from?”

“I’ve been saving my pocket money up Mom.”

“You bought all this with your pocket money?”

“No Mom. I bought a housebrick!”

Regards,

kev35

I think those convicted of the most serious crimes should be made to serve in the Royal Marines, …………………………………..to be used as target practice.;)
Jim.

Lincoln .7

Why do the BBC ,politicians and do-gooders insist on using the word “depraved society”. This means morally bad. The riots were due to materialistic wants. Most of them have Sky TV,the latest all singing mobile and £100 trainers so why is this crap bounded about. To correct the morally bad a short sharp spell in basic rights to the morally good should be taught.

Jay, re your Post,102, sometimes, and this is one, you make sense.;):D:D

Jim.

Lincoln .7

CCTV unfolds more sickening drama – Clapham Junction – on Crimewatch

CCTV unfolds more sickening drama – Clapham Junction – on Crimewatch

Moment rioters attack man with fire extinguisher caught on CCTV

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/-moment-rioters-attack-man-with-fire-extinguisher-caught-on-cctv.html (video and report)

“A shocking CCTV clip of a man being attacked with a fire extinguisher by dozens of rioters has featured on Crimewatch.

As Met Police officers scour 20,000 hours of CCTV footage to track down rioters and looters, this video is the latest to show the extreme lawlessness to hit the streets of the capital last week.

During the brief footage captured around 10.20pm last Monday, the suited man is forced by hooded looters to empty his pockets.

The bystander then appears to try and defend the Carphone Warehouse store in Clapham Junction before one of the yobs blasts him in the face with a fire extinguisher, drenching him in foam.

Using the extinguisher, the mob then smash the window of the phone shop and ransack it.
Police are now appealing for the victim in the footage to come forward.

According to the NHS, chemicals from a fire extinguisher may be harmful if swallowed or inhaled causing irritation of the skin, eyes, respiratory and gastrointestinal organs.

Do you recognise anyone? If you have any information contact the Metropolitan Police incident room on 0208 345 4142. Alternatively, you can contact Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.”

If you haven’t already seen the ghastly footage of the scooter rider attacked and his scooter riden off by a rioter? If not the video at URL

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/skyuk-25539322/scooter-rider-attacked-by-london-rioters-26311721.html

Hollywood can stop making horror movies and use the footage of these and more to come I am sure and pay royalties in to a victims’ support and building/business restoration fund.

:):)

Sorry-forgot the:)

Kev. Re the prison capacity, IIRC Cameron stated Pre election, that one of the 1st things he would do was to build 6 new ones. Perchance he has but we are unaware of it. I agree with the sentance re the two Facebook idiots,, and yes, what if a couple of hundred turned up, and went on the rampage. Incitement to Riot, is a serious charge, as is Contempt of Court, whilst Pergery is the worst of all. I wonder if and when they start their appeals against their charges, if the Judjes will, hopefully “UP” their sentances, which they have the power to do.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

Personal? – No.

I am interested in the fact that after the publicity a few weeks ago concerning the lack of prison capacity we are suddenly likely to need to conjure a thousand places. My guess is that the prisons are full and that there will be cell sharing and the attendant fury and indignation felt by the incumbents will be taken out on the “new arrivals” thus ensuring they get the punishment they deserve. Funny old place, prison, sometimes!:dev2:

You speak from experience?

You did indeed, Kev – apologies for missing it.:)

Pete.

I mentioned the Governments sudden ability to incarcerate 600 people back in Post 54. Prisons were allegedly filled to capacity months ago.

Tony T.

I suspect it would be manslaughter as precedents have already been set in cases of assault where death has resulted not from the blow struck but as a consequence of the subsequent fall. The talk of a murder charge is, I suspect, to maintain the image of the tough response of the Police, Judiciary and the Government and wil be downgraded to manslaughter in due course. I cant comment on the Mother being charged with perverting the course of justice as I dont know what she did. I would suspect a lot would hinge on whether her son has a previous criminal record and whether or not she is linked to any form of criminality herself.

As to the presumption that the deceased would have a grieving family, this may not necessarily be true. He was unidentified for several days and it was only after his name was revealed that members of his estranged family came forward.

Jay.

Sentencing for those convicted of incitement to riot via Facebook are, in my opinion, not too lenient at all. Whilst suggestions are made that the two convicted were only messing about or doing it for a joke, the consequences could have been disastrous for the innocent people of Northwich. Imagine that a couple of hundred muppets intent on mayhem had taken up the invitation? I know common sense is often not standard issue now, and that we all park ours at the door now and again, but to do what they did is stupidity of the most monumental kind.

As has been said elsewhere, perhaps we are looking at this all the wrong way. When these riots first started the Government, and the Police, were to a large extent in total disarray. It seemed to the casual observer that no one wanted to take any responsibilty for stopping the riots. When public opinion forced Cameron to return the Government realised that the Country was on a knife edge. In an effort to divert attention from the fact that they had lost control, it was decided that a firm stance should be taken, hence the level of sentencing. Justice being seen to be done. What has not been taken into account is the discrepancy between sentences passed down in the wake of the riots compared to those passed down before. I really dont think that sentences are too harsh in the wake of the riots, perhaps rather that they were too lenient previously.

Regards,

kev35

For some their backs will certainly be against the wall!:diablo:

Edited: CoC Rule 15

most are young males !! there are going to be an awfull lot of busy shower blocks !!

I am interested in the fact that after the publicity a few weeks ago concerning the lack of prison capacity we are suddenly likely to need to conjure a thousand places. My guess is that the prisons are full and that there will be cell sharing and the attendant fury and indignation felt by the incumbents will be taken out on the “new arrivals” thus ensuring they get the punishment they deserve. Funny old place, prison, sometimes!:dev2:

End of the Day he killed him, just as much as if he stabbed him through the heart, so no leniency from me…… possibly manslaughter though as i thought Murder had to be with intent to killl.
He took a life, there will be a grieving family somewhere short of a Dad, Uncle, Grandad, so I have no sympathy at all for him and one would hope he gets life for that, and life should mean life in these eyes.

Doing the mother…… well that is a natural thing for a mother to do to protect her child…… still he will be able to write to her from prison with all the pens and paper he got from a william hills.

Will you fight for leniency in this situation ? Teenager charged with riot murder

Will you fight for leniency in this situation ? Teenager charged with riot murder

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8704678/Teenager-charged-with-riot-murder.html

“A 16-year-old boy has appeared in court charged with killing a pensioner during the riots in London.

The youth, who cannot be named for legal reasons, appeared at Croydon Magistrates Court alongside his mother, who has been charged with perverting the course of justice.

Richard Mannington Bowes died after being attacked on Monday August 8 when he was attempting to extinguish a fire started by rioters rampaging near his home in Ealing, West London.

The 68-year-old was surrounded by a gang of youths, some of whom were wearing hoods.

According to the prosecution the 16-year-old punched Mr Bowes in the face, causing him to fall backwards and hit his head on the road…

… “Fires had been lit and missiles were being thrown. It was about 10.30pm Mr Bowes was spotted going over to a bin that had been set alight.

“He was seen trying to extinguish the fire in the bin when he was challenged by a number of people. It is at this point he is punched in the face and falls backwards striking his head…..

Mr Bowes never regained consciousness and died in hospital on August 11.d on the road surface.”…

…Police arrested the youth at his home in Hounslow, West London and he was subsequently charged with murder, violent disorder and four counts of burglary.

The court heard that the youth allegedly stole items from a branch of Tesco Express, William Hill bookmakers and a Thai restaurant called Fat Boys. ….”

Can anyone condone any of this behaviour?
Or advocate leniency in the sentence.
Who should get the heavier sentence, the teenager or his mother?
Are there effective and realistic solutions apart from adults (ideally parent/s) being responsible 24 hours a day for minors and teenagers whereabouts ?

Sentences – opinions (public and the learned) and some deterrents

Sentences – opinions (public and the learned) and some deterrents

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14557772 please watch and listen to Video – opinions from the public on sentences

Man jailed for Facebook incitement to riot to appeal

“A Cheshire man jailed for using Facebook to incite disorder during last week’s riots is to appeal against his prison sentence……

….The judge said on Tuesday he hoped the sentences would act as a deterrent.

The men both admitted encouraging crime in Northwich, although there were no outbreaks of disorder in the town.

Blackshaw and Sutcliffe-Keenan pleaded guilty under sections 44 and 46 of the Serious Crime Act to intentionally encouraging another to assist the commission of an indictable offence…..

…..Meanwhile, a 19-year-old in Gloucestershire who posted Facebook messages encouraging people to vandalise a shop during last week’s riots has avoided court.

Joshua Moulinie posted a message on his Facebook wall urging people to damage the Spar store in his home town of Bream, Forest of Dean.
But instead of facing the courts, Mr Moulinie – who said it was a “blatant joke” – was told to write a letter of apology to the shop owner….

….The Liberal Democrat peer, Lord Carlile, president of the Howard League for Penal Reform, said he was “surprised” by the sentences.

“The Chester sentence was handed out by a very experienced and highly regarded judge who was reflecting the views of the community he serves.
“But the sentences are heavy, and there are no guideline cases for judges to work from for this situation.

“I would expect the court of appeal to be asked very soon to provide a guideline case or cases so that judges can provide consistent, if severe, sentences around the country.”

The prosecution said Blackshaw had created a Facebook event called “Smash d[o]wn in Northwich Town”, intended for the receipt of the “Mob Hill Massive Northwich Lootin”.

The page said people should meet on 9 August, between 13:00 and 16:00 BST, “behind maccies” – thought to be McDonald’s in Northwich town centre.
Two more people have been charged with inciting public disorder via social network sites and are due to appear in court on Thursday, Cheshire police said.

A 24-year-old man from Runcorn is due to appear at Warrington Magistrates Court and a 17-year-old male from Crewe will appear at Crewe Magistrates Court.

There has also been criticism of the men’s sentences from MPs, barristers and campaigners, who have said the sentences handed down to some of those involved in riots across England were too severe.

Liberal Democrat MP Tom Brake said sentences “should be about restorative justice”, not retribution, while Labour MP Paul Flynn said the government was “throwing away sentencing rules”.

And leading criminal barrister John Cooper QC said he believed some sentences were “over the top” and likely to be overturned by the Court of Appeal.

IMO the entire process of criticism of these sentences is coming from the Liberals and people with vested interest in making a lot of dosh from the Appeals process.
They make the dosh out of other’s suffering and loss of homes and business and are they around to prevent further re-offence? I think not.

Please watch and listen to the video in the report above – it’s opinions from the public, two for and two against.
Do you think the two young people are making sense?
I don’t and would not have shared their opinions even when I was young. (I hear similar nonsense at my student part time job of some making excuses for others state of being hungover, late or absence or simply being down right lazy while being paid for it.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14542088

Essex cracks down on social media

It looks like the crackdown on social media may have already begun – in Essex at least.

The county was not affected by last week’s riots but Essex Police put out an intriguing statement yesterday, http://www.essex.police.uk/news_features/homepage_latest_news/three_arrested_as_police_reass.aspx ) in which they promised to “take a robust approach to anyone who uses social networking sites to stimulate fictitious rumours.”

The statement goes on to give two examples of that approach in action.
First, a 20-year-old Colchester man has been charged under the Serious Crime Act after allegedly sending messages from a BlackBerry encouraging people to join in a water fight.

Secondly, an 18-year-old woman from Clacton has been charged under the same act after allegedly using BlackBerry Messenger to encourage others to take part in violent disorder on 8 August.

So have the police found a way to listen in on BBM messages?

Probably not – after all the encryption employed by RIM across its BlackBerry network is supposedly state-of-the-art.

While I’m sure there is plenty of IT expertise at police headquarters in Chelmsford, it seems unlikely that they’ve succeeded where global security agencies have failed.

It looks more probable that messages have been forwarded to them by concerned members of the public.

Which only goes to show that your social networking messages are only private if all of your contacts allow them to be.

My own Post # 66 on this same thread

“….The technology has been available for yonks and is all in place to monitor exactly the network traffic patterns of mobiles (text messaging), Twitter, Facebook and emails. This is I hope being done in and around the areas of concentrated looting. The search criteria are simple to set once you have some gang leader’s numbers.

It isn’t rocket science it’s simple network monitoring including location of sending and receiving devices…”

Kev. In essence I was agreeing with kicking ass. as stated. We break the Law re the riots here, and we get the book thrown at us, and rightly so. What the French did, they got away with, spot the difference beetween the judicial systems.
It not worth arguing about at this time of night, so, it’s goodnight from me, and goodnight from hiim;)
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim.

I know what happened. Just asking you to explain how what happened in France is relevant to the severity or lenience of sentences being passed on looters appearing before the courts in connection with last weeks unpleasantness?

Regards,

kev35