Rolling Vulcan posted on U-bend

Oh Horsefeathers. Thanks for the info Mike. You have just proved my earlier post-ther’s nearly always someone on here with the answer.

I’m sorry to have misrepresented you, young sir. Please accept my appologies. It is, that’s the great thing about this forum, there’s usually someone out there who can provide chapter and verse. Thanks Albert, I consider myself lucky enough to have seen it live but I’m still going to have to get the DVD-just to watch it again. The other term for accepting something without proof is ‘Blind Faith’ which is sometimes useful but not always advisable.

Oi, there’s a fee for quotes, and an extra fee for misinterpretation!

JDK seems to have the attitude that if he didn’t see it happen, hasn’t read documentary evidence or seen photos/film footage it didn’t happen. There comes a time for all of us when we have to accept something even if we can’t see proof. Enough said, I have no intention of entering a slanging match over this.

Really? Not what I said. Mike J’s quoted me accurately, you are projecting your own interpretation onto me, Mike Currill.

As has been very well illustrated above photographic evidence can also be misinterpreted as well. No evidence, however, is suspicious.

Oral history and personal memory is something I do believe has a major role to play in history; however it’s notoriously unreliable. Just ask a cop about accident ‘witnesses’.

As to me believing “if he didn’t see it happen, hasn’t read documentary evidence or seen photos/film footage it didn’t happen.” Not so, thanks Mike C. The number of aviation events I’ve not witnessed is quite large (unlike Albert, who gave the Wrights a push start… 😀 ) I’m also prepared to put my hand up to mis-remembering a number of events I’ve witnessed – it’s dangerous to be dogmatic. It boils down to whether you’d prefer to believe comfortable but unverified stories from the bloke down the pub or actually want to find out the truth…

Conversely, if there is evidence, then it probably did happen!

There comes a time for all of us when we have to accept something even if we can’t see proof.

That’s called ‘religion’. 😉 Not going there, here.

Back on topic, Looks like Albert’s provided some proof for you Mike C. Good to have, eh?

JDK seems to have the attitude that if he didn’t see it happen, hasn’t read documentary evidence or seen photos/film footage it didn’t happen. There comes a time for all of us when we have to accept something even if we can’t see proof. Enough said, I have no intention of entering a slanging match over this.

Mike – I can back you up as I’ve seen this at Farnborough. It is also recorded on the video/DVD “Farnborough, the Glory, Glory Years”. QED!

JDK seems to have the attitude that if he didn’t see it happen, hasn’t read documentary evidence or seen photos/film footage it didn’t happen. There comes a time for all of us when we have to accept something even if we can’t see proof. Enough said, I have no intention of entering a slanging match over this.

Vulcan XA894 takes off, from the look of it on the power of the one underslung Olympus. It was not to last long.

Photo c/o Rolls Royce plc

It’s not actually ‘taking off’ XA894 made daily flypasts at Farnborough in September 1962, but did not land.

Vulcan XA894 takes off, from the look of it on the power of the one underslung Olympus. It was not to last long.

Photo c/o Rolls Royce plc

On the 3rd December 1962, XA894 was positioned on the detuner at Filton for a ground run and full power check; the detuner was to the north of the main east/west runway. At around 3.30pm, power was increased to maximum reheat; the exhaust flame evident in the darkening winter evening. Seconds later there was a sudden burst of orange flame above and below the aircraft. The whole aircraft lurched visibly forward. Inside the cabin the four occupants clearly felt the shock as the engine abruptly failed. The bomb bay fire warning lights flashed and then abruptly went out as the firewire cabling was cut. The crew did not hang about. They began evacuating as fast ignoring the crew ladder. The last man out noted that the LP disk cooling air gauge still read within limits; so that had not been the cause.

The cause of the failure was the last thing on the test engineers minds at this stage as they ran for cover. Within seconds the fire took hold as burning fuel poured from the aircraft, which was on a very slight slope. The attendant Filton fire truck, required for all ground runs was parked in front of the aircraft. But so fast did the fire move that almost before the firemen knew it the flames had completely engulfed the tender. They tried vainly to extinguish it but the fire was still being fed by fuel from the aircraft; they had no choice but to just monitor the total destruction of XA894 and their fire tender.

The airfield fire crews had been very proud of their tender, which was kept in immaculate condition and had won several awards. They continued to monitor the fire, which burned well into the evening with brilliant white balls of burning magnesium rising in a continuous fountain above the fire. It made quite a display for the factory staff who witnessed it.When later they were able to reconstruct the failure and establish a chain of events it transpired that again the LP turbine disk had been ejected from the engine. But not before first travelling around the strengthened bomb bay carving open two 150-gallon stainless steel fuel tanks in its progress out. It exited the airframe and hit the ground shedding what remained of the turbine blades, which bouncing back up like shrapnel, puncturing each wing tank. The disk itself ripped a ten foot gash in the port wing leading edge before proceeding east, in great 150 foot bounces; the marks of its passage were clearly visible on the ground and it finally came to rest just short of a T188 supersonic research aircraft being prepared for a test flight.

B1 XA903 on retirement from the Blue Steel programme was converted to carry the Olympus 593 destined to power Concorde.

I’d heard that too. I think it may have something to do with the fact that the Olly probably produced a similar ammount of thrust on its own as the 4 engines in a Vulcan put together

Vulcan XA903 used as a testbed for a multitude of experiments including the testing of the Olympus 593 and the Tornado RB199 engine, also it was the only Vulcan to be fitted with a 27mm Mauser cannon!.

Interestingly the other Vulcan that was used as an engine testbed was XA894 that had a TSR-2 engine slung under the bomb bay, so the story goes they were able to throttle the four engines back and fly perfectly well on the one Olympus 320!!.

Regards,

John.

It’s alright you’re forgiven, come back. I’m guilty of the same myself, only half reading a post before replying then going back and reading it in full and thinking what a prat I’ve just made myself look.

Oh ******!!!! I’ll get me coat……..sorry.

John.

Vulcans never had burners???.

John.

Oh yes this one did. If you read my original post on the subject you would see it was the one used as a test bed for the Olympus prior to installing them in Concorde. The Olly was hung in the bomb bay so you had a 5 engined Vulcan and it became an even more impressive perfomer than normal.

Vulcans never had burners???.

John.

Disbelieve if you will. All I know is what I saw. Don’t forget the Vulcan was never short on power to start with , add an Olympus in burner to it and the required power is there.

[QUOTE=galdri]If a Vulcan came apart during a 2G pull, something must have been seriously wrong! And it makes me wonder, how all the rest of the fleet survived for years in the low level role with out every single one of them braking up. Low level flying at high speed puts a very high strain on the airframe (and we are talking WAY more than 2G´s). Besides, the Pop-up Manuover is NOT a gentle pull. It will probably be around 3.5-4G´s on the way up, and a similar amount pulling out of the ´reverse half-cuban´. So if a Vulcan broke up at 2G´s, it must have been seriously redesigned! Otherwise, you would have Vulcan remains all over the place, and no surviving crewmembers.

Airframe limitations are not just about straight G. Aircraft have max manoevring speeds defined as Vman. This speed is defined as the limit to which maximum control deflection can be used by the pilot up to the max straight G limitation. Above Vman only a third of control deflection is allowed, and in some aircraft such as VX770 the straight G limit was much lower. This restriction of allowable control deflection particularly applied to aileron control because of the twisting forces applied to the wing. In the case of VX770, the pilot was limited to 1.75G and 360kts for the planned rolling/pull manoevre. What he actually did was to perform the manoevre at 420kts with a substantial aileron deflection way above Vman. The twisting force on the starboard wing caused a failure of the leading edge structure which then caused the skin to peel back ‘like a sardine tin’. All this occured with a G loading estimated at less than 2G.

The production B1 had a redesigned wing planform and leading edge structure which meant the operational limits were higher than VX770 – but not by much.

Again, any evidence for this? Vertical upward rolls in Vulcans! 😮

Or are we descending into the realms of fantasy here?

Vertical Upward roll – No Way.

And when the Lightning pilot’s were retired this is where they went taking some of thier finely honed flying skills with them 😮 😮 .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQynfV9vaYA

John.

Looks more like a 318 than a 737!
We used to do that in Cessna 150s on our flying scholarship! (when the CFI wasn’t looking)

And when the Lightning pilot’s were retired this is where they went taking some of thier finely honed flying skills with them 😮 😮 .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQynfV9vaYA

John.

Morning all,

A little extra desert!, only spoiled slightly by the Tonka at the end :dev2: .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXfH8Ej_ADk&mode=related&search=

John.

I seem to recall the Vulcan displaying at Farnborough when it was being used as a test bed for the Olympus before they put them in Concorde. That was impressive to watch as well. From a straight and level run in the pilot pulled her up vertical (or darned close) and performed an upward roll. Oh to see that again.