Rolls Royce Vulture, survivors?

I am sure you know the problems Orion – they were generally the sort of problems which afflicted the ‘Engineering Madness’ types of engine as mentioned in post #24 by Graham 😉

Ok, you’ve piqued my interest, what were these other problems and can you provide references please so I can follow it up?

I absolutely agree with all your post Graham – but the plain fact is that the Vulture was still going to be a relatively unreliable engine and that the Manchester would not have survived in production.It was a very close run thing for Chadwick to even get the Lancaster into production – there was a strong lobby to get Avro to switch to production of Halifaxes etc.

Fairer perhaps to say the major surviving problem, as considerable work had been done already. It is perhaps worth pointing out that other comparable high-power engines such as the Sabre, Centaurus, DB603 and BMW801 had equally important problems at this time, and later. Even the superb R-2800 wasn’t entirely trouble-free. It would have been equally far home on any of these. In the end, the Vulture wasn’t cancelled because of its problems but because of the pressure of work elsewhere.

Whether the Manchester was just too big a machine for two engines at this period is a different question, but getting rid of that awful top turret would have helped. Or a better nose.

Originally posted by Orion

The problem with the Vulture was in its big end design

I think it would perhaps be more accurate to say that One of the problems with the Vulture was in its Big End Design Orion.
Also if you lost 1 engine on a Manchester – it was a long way home with only 50% of your power left.

There was more than one Tornado: possibly only one that flew with a Vulture but that doesn’t imply only one engine. There would likely have been a number built before the first flight engine.

HP57 with Vultures: shouldn’t that be HP56? Room for a bit of free-thinking too. What’s this Manchester heresy?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avro-Manchester-Legend-Behind-Lancaster/dp/1781552851/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543402930&sr=8-1&keywords=avro+manchester

I have this book in my library and very good it is. The problem with the Vulture was in its big end design, when RR changed it to a design that was derived from radial engine technology the issue went away, but it was too late as the Merlin engined MkIII was already in production and removing the Vulture from the production schedules at RR factories simplified things a lot.

Instead of thinking of the Vulture as two 24 cylinder vee engines mounted back to back, think of it as a 4 cylinder 12 row liquid cooled radial!

I suspect that was from the Blackburn B20 which crashed off the Scottish coast

I am pretty sure the Dumfries and Galloway Aviation museum have the remains of a Vulture engine that was trawled up locally.

My visit was about 5 years ago now – will see if I can locate my piccies

The mkV was fitted to the Hawker Tornado, a close relative of the Typhoon.

So either it is unique ,or were Mk V Vultures fitted to other aircraft?

The mkV was fitted to the Hawker Tornado, a close relative of the Typhoon.

But they only built one. Not used on anything else?

Here’s ours, not much to look at as it has been trawled from the North Sea
but it’s a Vulture.

Cees

The mkV was fitted to the Hawker Tornado, a close relative of the Typhoon.

Vulture Mk V plate

Hi,

I have a Vulture Mk V, main plate.
Having seen references to the Rolls Royce Vulture mk I & II as being fitted to the Avro Manchester.

I have not been able to find any reference to a Rolls Royce Vulture Mk V !

Does any one know about this mark of Vulture?

cheers

Given we are discussing engines of Manchesters what other bits of the type still survive? Anything of note or just a few piles of twisted metal? I cant say I have ever seen reference to anything but worth a try!

Jon

Jon,

Mostly twisted wreckage. But I believe the RAF Museum S-for Sugar was originally ordered as a Manchester. So technically she could still be a Manchester that was converted on the production line into a Manchester III AKA Lancaster I.

Cees

Given we are discussing engines of Manchesters what other bits of the type still survive? Anything of note or just a few piles of twisted metal? I cant say I have ever seen reference to anything but worth a try!

Jon

Unlikely. Why replace an icon with something that was considered unsuccesful in its day, and is only remembered today as ‘the forerunner of the Lancaster’?

Any director of a museum owning a Lancaster would have to be certifiably crazy to even consider it!

Mike,

Of course it would be sacriledge if a museum would only even contemplate such a conversion 😮 . But there are sections still around (Kermit Weeks, Sandtoft etc.) that can be used for such a project. Don’t forget the Manchester wasn only the forerunner of the Lanc. It was a type in itself of which high hopes were placed. But it represented a moment in time of Bomber Command that deserves a place. Why having only succesful types on display? It would be boring as that way most museums have similar collections which is to a certain extent already the case (in my very humble opinion).

Cees

From what we have seen happening at museums recently, some museum directors ARE certifiable.

Wouldn’t mind a bit if one of the existing Lancasters was enginered back into a Manchester. BW Roger

Just as long as it’s not expected to fly. 🙂

Wouldn’t mind a bit if one of the existing Lancasters was enginered back into a Manchester. BW Roger