RPV vrs Airliner

Thanks KabirT you identified the aircraft and operator.

Thanks again Gonzo airliner and the location correct. Thanks for other info, I am happy with what I have now.

Thanks everyone else for help with identification, confirmation or and good educated guesses.

It was a German army EMT Luna tactical UAV and Ariana Afghan Airlines Airbus A300B4 @ Kabul.

I labeled a few reference points for comparison.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=34.533%C2%B0+N+69.166%C2%B0+E&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=34.543098,69.308217&spn=0.00813,0.021286&t=h&om=1

Near misses between UAVs and airliners prompt NATO low-level rules review

Incidents between UAVs and helicopters in Afghanistan and Iraq prompt action

NATO is studying options for improving low-level airspace co-ordination in operational areas in response to an increasing number of proximity incidents involving manned aircraft and unmanned air vehicles.

The study, being run by NATO’s Joint Air Power Competence Centre (JAPCC) as part of research into improved UAV integration into NATO force structures, follows at least three incidents involving UAVs and helicopters in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001.
© Bundeswehr

This close call between an airliner and a Luna UAV over Kabul highlighted a growing risk

TD
Study co-ordinator Brig Gen Elia Baldazzi, JAPCC assistant director capabilities, says incidents giving rise to NATO concerns also include a near miss between an Ariana Afghan Airlines Airbus A300B4 with over 100 passengers and a German army EMT Luna tactical UAV. Flight International has obtained an animation sequence of images taken from the Luna’s daylight camera (pictured above). The incident occurred over Kabul on 30 August 2004.

“Due to the failure of the air traffic control tower to follow standard procedures, the two aircraft nearly occupied the same airspace at the same time. With a bit of luck the pilot avoided the crash,” says Baldazzi, who reveals that the aircraft missed each other by less than 50m (164ft). The airliner’s wake turbulence caused the UAV to crash.

“Airspace in combat areas is becoming increasingly crowded,” Baldazzi says. “The block of airspace from the surface up to 3,000ft is particularly crowded with small UAVs and helicopters. In south-west Asia there have been three collisions between UAVs and helicopters.” The need for improved arrangements is also being driven by restrictions being placed on military UAV usage in emergency relief and humanitarian operations by civil regulators.

The problem is expected to become more pressing as NATO member nations increase their UAV fleets, says Baldazzi, who adds: “Currently 15 of NATO’s 26 nations have unmanned systems in their inventories and the number is expected to grow.” There are around 775 UAVs operating in Afghanistan and Iraq and this number is expected to climb as the conflicts continue.

Traditional approaches to airspace deconfliction in battlefield areas are based on establishing restricted zones, assigning operational boxes and using ceiling limits determined on the basis of aircraft type. This has created problems, Baldazzi says, particularly in “friend or foe identification, especially where the battlespace is not linear such as in Afghanistan.

“We cannot afford deconflicted airspace,” he says. “We have too many aircraft that can fly at too many different altitudes; they are operated by too many nations and by too many different services. So we must become integrated.”

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/03/14/205379/animation-near-misses-between-uavs-and-airliners-prompt-nato-low-level-rules.html

ATFS,

I’m the unit Representative for GATCO at Heathrow Tower, and I promise you it was on the cover. If I can find a copy of the mag, I’ll scan it and email it to you.

BTW, the mag is called ‘Transmit’.

Aha! Handily it’s still the current issue, therefore the cover is on the website. Here, have a look at http://www.gatco.org/transmit.html

Thank you again, very much. That would seem to indicate the photo is real.

It was over Kabul and it’s not a fake

ATFS,

I’m the unit Representative for GATCO at Heathrow Tower, and I promise you it was on the cover. If I can find a copy of the mag, I’ll scan it and email it to you.

BTW, the mag is called ‘Transmit’.

Aha! Handily it’s still the current issue, therefore the cover is on the website. Here, have a look at http://www.gatco.org/transmit.html

If I were a bett’n man, from what I remember, the area looks like the Kabul area.

I am not sure if it authentic or not. My hunch is that it is authentic. At first I was pretty skeptical, but as time goes on, I tend to think more and more that it is real.

It is a few stills I made into a movie to help analyze the motion. The frames seem to be unevenly spaced in time. I think the spacing is even except for one frame. that could indicate it is a fake or it is snapshots of a video that someone staggered the time frames slightly to show the action better.

If I could see it cover picture of the magazine of the Guild of Air Traffic Controllers (GATCO) to highlight ATC issues with UAVs, and if it had more info I would tend to believe it more.

I have had a few people tell me it was a UAV in Afghanistan. I didn’t want to come out and say that because I did not know if it is true and I didn’t want to seed any thoughts.

The terrain looks like it is Afghanistan, or Midwest USA. It’s hard to tell by the photos, but it looks like the markings on the airline are bland, that makes me think it might be military or a dreamland flight.

I get the idea some people might know more about this incident but might be bighting their lips. Like it was a UAV flight that had a mishap and the images was released for safety info, but the details might be withheld to avoid embarrassment or revealing secrets. I almost feel bad about asking, but my curiosity and concern for safety is high.

I think Gonzo might be right, it sounds like the most solid lead I have had so far, thanks.

I found comments on another message board about it but it has no details and I have no way of knowing if the claims are authentic. It has the stills posted there; I didn’t want to waist my allotted storage space.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43406

raises some interesting points, in the case that UAV’s do not appear on radar screens of ATC’s.

There are often so small, slow and have usually have no transponder, which most radar will not show them, and if they do, they could be confused for birds. Most UAV don’t show up, and when they do they are often classed as UFO.

raises some interesting points, in the case that UAV’s do not appear on radar screens of ATC’s. Specially in war torn areas this can come as a ticking time bomb for a big accident to happen.

I can not comment on the credibility of this youtube movie but, Our plane almost hit a few UAVs from a few different nations. Seems ATC has no clue where these things are .
One was bright daylight, and we were on landing approach and this predator come right past our nose at the same flight level…we asked the tower what the hell was going on, and they were clueless…the “operator” was not in contact with them.

I don’t believe this is fake.

It’s a Predator UAV, I believe, and an Ariana A300 in Afghanistan.

It was used recently as the cover picture of the magazine of the Guild of Air Traffic Controllers (GATCO) to highlight ATC issues with UAVs.

I dont think ANA ever operated A300s. Looks somewhat like a Ariana A300 though.

Like somebody has said in the comments, it is only seven frames long and is just a few photos strung together. Without doubt a fake.

But the aircraft is not a 777. Looking at the landing gear, there are an insufficient number of wheels for it to be one. I would say an A300 instead.

ANA 777

Not that good a photo edit really.