Rugby World Cup Hypocrisy

At this rate they’d have to recruit from monasteries if they want young men who will behave at all times and live up to the impossible standards of the media, though I am sure that all journalists are perfect and never misbehaved in any way.

It is totally unrealistic to expect vigorous, healthy young men to be, at every waking moment, aware of their behaviour and attitude and to be aware that they are under continuous scrutiny even outside of their sporting activities.

Apart from the fact that for the most part they have been reared in a society in which concepts of standards and values such as shame, embarrassment, duty and responsibility have next to no meaning, they are abroad in a different social environment and free from the scrutiny of friends and family whose presence at other times perhaps acts as a restraining influence or whose familiarity will modify the more extreme forms of behaviour.

Whether he did or not I have no way of knowing but, I would have expected Martin Johnson in properly exercising his managerial responsibility to have said that any player misbehaving even for reasons that might otherwise be excused will be immediately sent home and if the offence is bad enough, will never again play for England as long as he (Johnson) is chief steward.

That kind of statement would have laid down a very clear demarcation line – cross it and you’re fired.

John Green

And that probably sums it up. There is reasonable proof that if one is able to display discipline in one area they are likely to display similar behaviors in others. Therefore an undisciplined player off the field is likely to be an disciplined player on the field.

Much has been made of the ill discipline of the England Rugby Union team off the pitches in the world cup. I believe it is indiscipline on the pitch that truely is the shame. In the game v France I believe the penalty count was 5 awarded 14 conceded. Can any one confirm that and does anyone have statistics for the other matches.
Be lucky
David

I am very disappointed to hear of this player drinking beer, I’d at least expect him to be able to do a few shots as well.

I’ve got a rugby question……

London wasps….do they have a B team ?

They have been beaten by the Bees before.

Behaviour on the field since RFU went professional has changed. Not only are they fitter but there is far less argie bargie on the field.

Changing attitudes I guess. Look at F1. Fewer crashes, much safer but didn’t we all used to watch for the danger?

It may be that better behaviour off the field is the next logical step, for some, to apply for these ever improving athletes.

I’ve got a rugby question……

London wasps….do they have a B team ?

Gotta say, guys, the New Zealand media do have a habit of making a mountain out of a molehill. I’m a Kiwi and I see this all the time. I guess it’s because there isn’t much going on here, so a hoo haa is often made out of nothing. A case in point is a perceived reaction by Australian fans, before their defeat by the ABs.

There were “stories” of Aussie fans hurling abuse, being drunken louts and starting fights (nuthin new there:diablo:), but it’s been a big fabrication; in fact one broadcaster went out to interview Australians here and found them better behaved than the Kiwi fans. They are all just pleased to be here. A load of rubbish by the sensationalist media in this country.

Regarding the players being in the media spotlight, players should be allowed to go out for a beer or two, but restraint is required. As for Mike Tindall, well, he’s a bit of a dick for getting caught, isn’t he?

Regardless though, you can’t change the ball because you’re having a rough kicking day! Not cool, man! England deserve to go home.:mad:

Flatcat.

RWC a business? Yes, I can understand that it would answer to that description. But, it most certainly has winners and losers so on that definition it is a sporting competition. More precisely still: a knockout sporting competition.

On the subject of performance rather than behaviour, my only observation is that the English players in the side, that is, those homegrown players rather than those imported and allegedly qualified via some granny or grandad from the remote past seem to have next to no pride in playing and representing their country. They seem to me to do a job in a perfunctory and graceless style with no signs of contrition when it all went wrong. Witness their demeanour when arriving back in this country. Smiles and laughter all round at the airport. One would have thought that they would have arrived quietly, and made their exit as soon as possible with the least fuss.

There are valiant exceptions to the above. Lewis Moody and Ben Foden come to mind. Moody’s distress was palpable

John Green

The RWC is not a sporting competition, it is a business where success and failure is both sudden and public, as are also the employees, and there is no in-between.

As people love to ride on the success of others, not to mention revel in the misery of others, any action they do that may contribute to either achievement is going to be read by many (including, obviously yourself).

Enter the newsman, another business. Their job is to make money by introducing you, for a small fee, to stuff that you didn’t know but are interested in. So now we are back to a famous businessman (also known as a rugby player in this case) getting drunk, doing something stupid and making it into your paper.

Is it right – each to their own opinion. Is it the way of the world, yes.

PeeDee,

I see where you are coming from, but these guys are not the only people who are behaving in the way you describe. Rightly or wrongly, I’d suggest that this sums up the behaviour of many of their countrymen each week.

And I don’t think that the players concerned should “get away” with it – the rugby authorities should take appropriate action against them, in the way that you or I would be disciplined by our employers if we behaved inappropriately while on a trip away.

What they shouldn’t have to face though is a trial by a censoriuos and somewhat hypocritical media that seeks, as John says, to make a mountain out of a molehill as they attempt to arrest their declining circulations by trying to destroy the reputations of the players concerned.

The thread is on the behaviour, the performance of the team is another matter.

John G, can’t agree. Just because the players may have an education and good schooling does not render it downwards into horseplay. Getting sh*tfaced in a public bar, jumping off a ferry, ignoring Union rules on sponsorship adverts are not OK for the representatives of any national squad. OK, the latter is minor but it still shows the younguns that laws are made to be broken not respected.

Clearing out a team every time they have a bad tournament is not the way to build a cohesive and world beating team, it took several years to build up the 03 winning England team and likewise clearing out the likes of Thompson, Tindell, Wilko, Moody etc would then provide 4 years to really bring on the core of the current team whilst using other players to add the much needed depth.

Sacking Johnno is also not the answer, he hasn’t had the same level of coaching experience as others, going straight from playing for Leicester to the England set up, let’s not forget England did win the 6N this year.

The other problem is that the current way of supporting and using England players is detrimental at club level so the other option is to go down the Sarries route and just get a squad of South Africans (and play home games there). The benefit of using Tri Nation players is that it means it is far less likely they’ll get picked for their country and won’t unsettle the domestic competition.

In my humble opinion.

The RFU, team management and the players have showed arogance and a complete lack of respect from day one.

They have been crass and naive from the start off the field and frankly just the same on the field. Giving away penalty after penalty after penalty.

They got what they deserved……nothing but ignaminious defeat.

Get rid of most of them and start again that especially goes for the management. We have the largest pool of players to choose from in England.

They have let down rugby union in England and themselves on and off the field.

Lets start from scratch with people that want to play and know how to behave as professionals.

And yes, I am English………..

IndiaEcho.

Your comments are accurate and balanced.

PeeDee.

Yes, you are probably right. Some sportsmen/women are role models. But, in this particular instance, was the level of horseplay of some members of the England Rugby team so bad as to disqualify them from any qualification as role models ?

I don’t think so. In one instance, poor taste? Maybe. I’ve followed rugby as both player and spectator for more years than I can remember and from that perspective it seems to me that there is more than a malicious glee on the part of the media around the world when England particularly, is seen to unravel. Whenever England and sport are the subject of media speculation then the phrase “mountains and molehills” comes to mind.

As an act of media redemption, I spotted the following quote in my newspaper:

For Sale: “One Sweet Chariot. Only fifteen previous owners. Wheels liable to fall off. Guaranteed to get you home sooner rather than later”

John Green

No, if a scally-no-mark did it, then it would be hi spirits.

These Rugby players are role models to a lot of people young and old and they should behave as such. Footballers are of course far worse, and considering the origins of Cricket – some of todays Cricket players are barely above the footballers on a Brainless Yob scale.
If the press ignored it, then some other international press wouldn’t and it would get round You tube etc. anyway.

I don’t know anything about rugby, but I do know a bit about the media, and I think that you are right, John, this is a classic case of the media seeking to ruin a reputation.

If anyone else did this, it would be put down to a spot of high jinks, a young guy relaxing and letting off a bit of steam after a highly pressured few weeks at work.

But because he is an England rugby player, he is deemed fair game by the media who if challenged over it would no doubt claim that this is in the ‘public interest’ as he represents his country and (if my understanding that England underacheived at the tournament is correct) it fits into their narrative that has emerged of a team that prefers a good social life to taking their responsibilities as sportsmen seriously.

I don’t know much about football either, but I understand one of the criticisms of the England set up at last year’s World Cup was that the players spent too much time cacooned with each other at their training camps – no doubt a strategy devised by their PR advisers to avoid the sorts of headlines that their rugby playing colleagues seem to have attracted over the last few weeks.

It is a pity that the media can’t be a little more responsible in their reporting. I’m not saying that they should cover serious wrong doings up, but with things like this they should consider if they really are doing more harm than good.

Especially, writing as someone who has spent a lot of time socialising with journalists from some of the most censorious publications, I can assure you they are no angels when they choose to let their hair down either.

IE

To be fair the Tuilagi clan live round the corner from us and I’ve never seen Manu jumping in the stream/ditch that is by the park, he’s always been such a nice lad!

Still I wonder how the press would react to the old 99 call from ‘that’ lions tour if it happened now?