Russian Navy Thread 2.

Russia’s Only Aircraft Carrier Damaged by Fire

12-12-19, 09:37 Last update: 12:06

Update In a fire on Russia’s only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, two people were injured today. Russian media report that.

The fire started during maintenance work in a harbor in northern Murmansk, probably it involved welding work in the first power station. According to TASS news agency, the fire raged on the upper deck and there was thick smoke. The fire was under control in the second part of the morning.

Various Russian media initially reported that at least three people had been injured. Later the Russian navy announced that it involved two wounded who had both received care. Several people were taken off the ship by rushed emergency services.

It is unclear how large the damage is.

(Translated by Google Translate.)

https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/gewonden-door-brand-op-ruslands-enige-vliegdekschip~a6ad192f/

Oops!

Finally got the image i was looking for (1st one), but not the link. Pr.22160 with Pr.20380

[ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:”Click image for larger version Name:tpr22160_pr20380.jpg.jpeg Views:t0 Size:t134.4 KB ID:t3874762″,”data-align”:”none”,”data-attachmentid”:”3874762″,”data-size”:”full”}[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:”Click image for larger version Name:tf_YS5yYWRpa2FsLnJ1L2ExNS8xOTA3LzFiLzc5ZmY2YTQ1ZmRkMy5qcGc_X19pZD0xMjE2Nzc=.jpg Views:t0 Size:t517.5 KB ID:t3874763″,”data-align”:”none”,”data-attachmentid”:”3874763″,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”f_YS5yYWRpa2FsLnJ1L2ExNS8xOTA3LzFiLzc5ZmY2YTQ1ZmRkMy5qcGc_X19pZD0xMjE2Nzc=.jpg”}[/ATTACH]

Russian navy is already starved of funds and to make it worse, it is held hostage by the business/builders loby w.r.t what ships it gets and where it will be built. The main leech is Severnaya who have a monopoly over the ships and leeched upon the entire new surface ships that is planned for the navy – Pr.20380/20385, Pr.20386, Pr.22350 and they are already building/expanding their yard with eyes on the helicopter carriers/LHDs. (God save the recent info regarding Zaliv to built two LHDs)

Above we have two new designs but the capability speaks for itself. Below is a quick spec of the two from wiki (need not be accurate/plz correct wrong info)

22160 / 20380

Displacement – 1300+ / 1800+
Length – 94m / ~104.5m
Beam – 14m / 13m
Draught – 3.4m / 3.7m
Crew – 80 / 90

Propulsion – CODAG (2 x 16D49 + 2 x M70FR) / CODAD (4 x 16D49)
Speed – upto 30kts / upto 27kts
Range – 6,000 miles (or is it nmiles?) / 4,400 miles
Endurance – 60 days / 15 days

A navy starved of ocean going long endurance surface ships and friendly ports/bases cannot afford to have relatively costly ships that takes ages to built with just 15 days (or even 20days) endurance. This is when the 22160 design came in (sort of a divine intervention!) with a light displacement and an enormous (relatively) range of 6,000miles (or is it nmiles?) and 60 days endurance. And I firmly believe this is the ship that Russian Navy needs to built en mass in mulitple shipyards (with some modification) and have a naval presence around the globe to protect its vital interests unitll larger and heavy guys come online.

Pr.20380/20385 have outlived its utility and need to be dumped, it is nothing more than a cashcow for the yard it is building. Same case with 20386 – the earlier it is dumped, the better.

Few modification that I would like to have on 22160
– 8-cell VLS at foredeck (do away with aft container Kalibers)
– 32 x 2 cell VLS for 9m317/9m96/e2 (like that on the 20385 aft of hanger)
– Sonar at bow
– New mast (shown below on 20385)
– etc
Not like to be mouch more than 1,500t

[ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:”Click image for larger version Name:txijqVw0UxStKaVZh.jpg Views:t0 Size:t73.5 KB ID:t3874764″,”data-align”:”none”,”data-attachmentid”:”3874764″,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”xijqVw0UxStKaVZh.jpg”}[/ATTACH]

A NC propulsion still takes lot of time and $$$ to build, and believe it or not they have just as much if not higher maintenance cost vs Diesel engines.

NPPs are certainly not for third world navies I know, but VMF is not one of them and they already have a sizeable fleet of nuclear submarines and right now probably the best nuclear technology all around. New reactors are apparently not going to need substitution of the nuclear fuel almost for the entire life of the ship, so they associated costs will decrease notably.

Two 15kt LHD-esques to be laid down at Zaliv:

https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%93%D0%B…D0%B0%D0%B746/

Sounds definite, and like a bit of Mistral redux.

Good find, maybe we get to see these two sooner than expected (construction was scheduled for 2021)

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6592830

Now they say 15 kT and > 10 helos, before they said 15-20, which would be a lot for that displacement but still possible, if they use their new semi-catamaran hulls for the LHDs. It would be an ideal application.

Two 15kt LHD-esques to be laid down at Zaliv:

https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%93%D0%B…D0%B0%D0%B746/

Sounds definite, and like a bit of Mistral redux.

The destroyer would IMO be more of an ABM asset, in case they manage to get S-500 onboard, than a tool to bomb US with CMs. And most probably it will have nuclear propulsion, which is not a problem in Russia from what I know. They need to update Severnoye, that is where they plan to build them.

A NC propulsion still takes lot of time and $$$ to build, and believe it or not they have just as much if not higher maintenance cost vs Diesel engines.

Google on-line translate.

The readiness of the Admiral Nakhimov heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser undergoing repair and modernization at Sevmash is now 50%, the ship will be handed over to the Russian Navy at the end of 2022, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko told reporters on Monday.

Krivoruchko added that it would be “the most modern cruiser armed with high-precision long-range weapons”: the protection of the ship will be provided by the Fort-M and Pantsir-M air defense systems, as well as the powerful Pack-NK and Response anti-submarine weapons .

https://ria.ru/20190909/1558505440.html

As debated above. the problem is not fielding the Hull of a new DD. Its the propulsion. But keep in mind there is also the Funding. Why do you think Russia keep upgrading their existing fleet to the large point as they have done..

The destroyer would IMO be more of an ABM asset, in case they manage to get S-500 onboard, than a tool to bomb US with CMs. And most probably it will have nuclear propulsion, which is not a problem in Russia from what I know. They need to update Severnoye, that is where they plan to build them.

An answer is already planned, in order to put the “gun” as close to US’s “head” as they are putting it to Russia’s. First, IRBMs close to Bering would have a brief flight covering the whole US Western half, from the nuclear sites to the East to California in the South. Second, Zirkon-loaded SSNs spread around US continental landmass, which would cover all the critical areas in the East Coast too without the need to bother any third country and are all but impossible to locate, given the size of the sea area involved.

As debated above. the problem is not fielding the Hull of a new DD. Its the propulsion. But keep in mind there is also the Funding. Why do you think Russia keep upgrading their existing fleet to the large point as they have done..

This shows why Russia needs Pr.11441 upgraded Kirov class and (follow it up with) Pr.23560 Lider class cruisers more than ever before. The only solution to US deployment (which the Russians already foresaw) is by having a 24×7 presence off the DC coast with cruise missiles. Nothing else will do.

An answer is already planned, in order to put the “gun” as close to US’s “head” as they are putting it to Russia’s. First, IRBMs close to Bering would have a brief flight covering the whole US Western half, from the nuclear sites to the East to California in the South. Second, Zirkon-loaded SSNs spread around US continental landmass, which would cover all the critical areas in the East Coast too without the need to bother any third country and are all but impossible to locate, given the size of the sea area involved.

What kind of ship is behind the 531?

Izdeliye 22160.

I will leave this striking pic here…. a winner alongside a wasteful design!

There was one more pic that I came across from a different angle/side, but cant find it now.

What kind of ship is behind the 531?

US has carried out Tomahawk cruise missile test from land based Mk-41 launcher.
https://twitter.com/mattkorda/status/1163503849707118593

The real kicker here is the Mk-41 launcher. Russia has said for years that those deployed in Europe could launch Tomahawks, and therefore violate INF. US denied it. 16 days after the INF Treaty died, what does the US do? Launch a Tomahawk from a ground-based Mk-41 launcher.

This shows why Russia needs Pr.11441 upgraded Kirov class and (follow it up with) Pr.23560 Lider class cruisers more than ever before. The only solution to US deployment (which the Russians already foresaw) is by having a 24×7 presence off the DC coast with cruise missiles. Nothing else will do.

I will leave this striking pic here…. a winner alongside a wasteful design!

There was one more pic that I came across from a different angle/side, but cant find it now.

here…
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”D_1I03zUwAA2RHu.jpg:large.jpg”,”data-attachmentid”:3869996}[/ATTACH]

catamaran design has no catapult and no awacs wing and limited planes due to small and shallow hangar!

Shouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be an optimised 11435 design.

Check this out.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6593379

It would be also a semicatamaran with CONAG propulsion, springboard + catapults and capacity for 100 planes in 76 kT. Impossible to reach such capacity with a conventional hull, so it is not a modification of the Kuznetsov, though I assume it could have broadly similar lines due to the springboard.

The amphibious model displayed above the carrier showcased similar layout among recent Russian designs.

The Lavina had some sort of tunnel between side hulls, but it is not exactly as the patent for the semicatamaran is described. There the transition between the monohull at the bow and catamaran at the stern is more progressive. But maybe similar benefits are obtained, I have not read anything about that particular hull design.

To be honest this is the best design that have come out. A medium sized carrier with absolutely no “shortcomings” that was attributed to the Russian STOBAR designs like – lack of simultaneous t/o and trap, lack of deck space for aircrafts etc. It shows what a properly optimised 40-45k t carrier would look like. Its much much better than the Cavour based IAC-I, Charles DeGaulle, current 11435/Kuznetsov design and rival the newer QE class carrier.

The guys from Krylov define it explicitly as a light carrier, other than that I agree it has obvious advantages due to the huge flight deck.

Now imagine that layout with almost a 50% more displacement and nuclear propulsion…. that would be a serious deal.

It would be good if Russian Navy build few of them (after all they had 4 x 1143) and I would surely love to see this design for Indian Navy. Other potential customer could be Brazil among others.

In fact it would be a great design for export, true. Cannot wrap my head around India dealing with UK for the design of a third carrier when this wonder is available for co-development.

Basing a new design on 11437 is not at all bad.

Its parameters have been thoroughly surpassed by Krylov´s proposals. But the real issue here is that we are not talking about a new design based on a 11437, but the very 11437 with a new superstructure, taken directly from another past proposal. They did not even bother tweaking the model a bit to avoid insulting the public. I mean, it has the same soviet era anti-ship missile wells, old CIWS systems etc etc. Literally the same 30 or 40 years old model from the Ulyanovsk and hence nothing to see as far as a “new design” is concerned.

http://mil.today/2019/Navy60/

Full displacement of Cayman ships will make 8,000 tons, length is 150 meters, beam is 19.5 meters, draft is 4.5 meters. The ship will accelerate up to 18 knots, the crew will include 120 men.

Cayman’s air group will consist of ten assault transport helicopters and two search and rescue ones. In addition, the ship will accommodate up to six landing boats lifting at least 45 tons each.

As a reminder, two landing ships were keel-laid at Yantar Shipyard in April 2019; both are of the second series of Project 11711 named Vladimir Andreev and Vasily Trushin. The ships are to join the Russian Navy in 2023 and 2024, respectively.

After nearly half a decade, an updated 11711E design comes out. But I feel for the years they invested into this new design, an optimised 1174 design would have served better, which had larger capacity of around 40+ tanks or 80 APCs. Anyways better than nothing,

Pr.1174

Turkish Bayraktar class LST, similar to the 1174 Ivan Rogov class, but around half its tonnage. A modernised/upgraded/optimised 1174 design could have looked similar.

But the intermediate carrier has not been shown… the one with 76 kT that was expected on Army, then on IMDS. In the meantime, media has gone silent about it…

Shouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be an optimised 11435 design.

Thanks for the picture of the hull, the best one I have seen until now of the semicatamaran layout. A breakthrough in shipbuilding.

The amphibious model displayed above the carrier showcased similar layout among recent Russian designs.

The carrier has a bigger flight deck than Kuznetsov with 70% of the displacement. But the conventional propulsion and somewhat limited air wing are the downsides. VMF wants a bigger vessel, with more aircraft and nuclear propulsion. This was the intermediate carrier mentioned above and in your article, but it has not been shown. This would be the one that is most promising IMHO.

To be honest this is the best design that have come out. A medium sized carrier with absolutely no “shortcomings” that was attributed to the Russian STOBAR designs like – lack of simultaneous t/o and trap, lack of deck space for aircrafts etc. It shows what a properly optimised 40-45k t carrier would look like. Its much much better than the Cavour based IAC-I, Charles DeGaulle, current 11435/Kuznetsov design and rival the newer QE class carrier.

It would be good if Russian Navy build few of them (after all they had 4 x 1143) and I would surely love to see this design for Indian Navy. Other potential customer could be Brazil among others.

But a slight dissapointment is the twin shaft layout. I would have loved to see a 4 shaft layout. Thrust from 4 props at lower rpm will be missed.

BTW the “well deck” is just the space for the stern elevator, as far as I see

I meant the port side cutting, not s/b opening for elevators.The original 1143 series also had those cuttings in those area.
Came across few more clearer snaps when the model was first displayed and there is no well deck. But the overall things looks good, Very satisfied to see an optimised 11434/11430 successor/medium sized carrier design.

As to the Manatee, it is nothing but a hack. The same old Ulyanovsk model with names changed and the superstructure of project 23000E from 2015… embarrassing.

Basing a new design on 11437 is not at all bad.

Some eye candy stuff from IMDS 2019

Storm-KM multirole carrier (displacement 44,000 tons) — Somewhat my fav among the three.

But the intermediate carrier has not been shown… the one with 76 kT that was expected on Army, then on IMDS. In the meantime, media has gone silent about it…

This is exactly how project 1143 optimised as a true aircraft carrier would have looked like, Its like a wish come true. Almost as I visualized for a 45,000 tonne carrier,
The design retained the two deck elevators, in addition to an additional deck edge stern elevator. The design even have a sort of well deck for docking is available at stern.

Thanks for the picture of the hull, the best one I have seen until now of the semicatamaran layout. A breakthrough in shipbuilding.

The carrier has a bigger flight deck than Kuznetsov with 70% of the displacement. But the conventional propulsion and somewhat limited air wing are the downsides. VMF wants a bigger vessel, with more aircraft and nuclear propulsion. This was the intermediate carrier mentioned above and in your article, but it has not been shown. This would be the one that is most promising IMHO.

BTW the “well deck” is just the space for the stern elevator, as far as I see

As to the Manatee, it is nothing but a hack. The same old Ulyanovsk model with names changed and the superstructure of project 23000E from 2015… embarrassing.

Pr.955A, with every iteration, its gets better, even in terms of look.

Project 11430E

pic from
https://twitter.com/MuxelAero